# Xbox Project Natal **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 3, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599 "2009-06-03T17:22:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/21 "2009-06-04T23:57:37Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Game journalists have pretty much unanimously decided to call it the Wand until Sony says otherwise. I’ve heard “wiggle” (of course that was about a year ago) - - unless I’m thinking of something else? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/22 "2009-06-05T05:37:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It looked to me like Milo was mostly running pre-scripted conversation snippets (“Hey, wanna go fishing?”), interspersed with a few ELIZA-like rephrases of what the human says. Probably something like that but does that mean the Milo’s voice is computer-generated in real time rather than recorded? Even just repeating something that a human says with a natural-sounding voice is a tremendous achievement and I don’t know if the technology has reached that far. And what about the facial expressions? Reacting to the tone of human voice with the appropriate expression would a be tremendous achievement in AI. Overall I am skeptical of that entire “conversation” and would like to know what exactly was being done behind the scenes. I still think the technology is amazing and will revolutionize interactive entertainment beyond just gaming. There are so many directions it could go in which we haven’t thought of so far. And while I wouldn’t want to be up and running for every game there are lots of casual games for which it would be great fun. ---
**Author:** ![RogueAOV](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@RogueAOV](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueAOV)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/23 "2009-06-05T07:52:42Z")
My opinion on project natal, was mixed, i honestly do not see the point in playing a game by flailing your arms around, and i can not see many games working easily for it without being much more than a tech demo. I also do wonder how tiring it would get playing some games. For example the racing game demoed, looked enjoyable, but how long can you keep your arms outstretched before you get tired from it?, playing guitar hero hurts my hands after half a hour or so because of the shape of the guitar and the fact i have small hands, so i can only do one concert before i take a break. So i would seriously struggle to consider playing a racing game if it had endurance races a la gran turismo. And that reasoning applies to most games. The other fact is i do not tend to sit perfectly infront of my tv while playing, i am the sort that may well end upside down playing if the mood strikes so i would like to know how accurate it tracked, also did anyone else wonder during the racing sequence on natal what would happen if you crashed and had to chance down gears quickly? how often would mistakes like going into reverse happen?. i think you have to have buttons. The milo demo was awesome, if indeed it was real and not perfectly scripted out etc, and the idea of building a relationship with a charector does appeal to me. Particularly if it could be incorperated into other games. What i mean by that is if they could put the milo charector in to a game as your sidekick. Remember in resident evil two, when you had that annoying little girl following your around?, if they could make it so it had been milo instead, it would really help to build a better sense of peril if he was in danger. you would actually care about helping him rather than just to beat the game. That concept does interest me. The one major issue i had with milo was when the lady drew the fish, she used a special pen, coloured orange. looked like a magic marker so that milo could recognize the colour. That seems like just another annoying running cost of the systems these days. My other issue about milo would be the people who would mistreat him. we have all be teenagers so i am sure you can imagine the hell he would go through. But seriously i think the crowd who blame video games for real life violence would have a field day with the milo persona, it could lead to some kids depending on him as a real friend and developing real feelings for it. I can imagine the nervous break downs when a patch is released which causes him to lose his “personality” and upset kids. The sony “wand” was more appealing to me, as i really feel you need to be able to have buttons at your finger tips to actually play a game with complexity. So i am unsure if i would mind being more active to play with those simply on the basis of i would be more into the game and as you are actually controlling the game with buttons, you wouldnt make a stupid mistake. As it stands both are little more than gimmicks to me, and i just cant get my head into playing my kids wii, because of the gimmick angle. I do think almost everything nintendo has done lately has been a gimmick, but it does seem to be working well enough to get MS and sony following behind, so it does have mass market appeal. As always, it comes down to the games and sonys demo with the sword and shield did alot for this lord of the rings fan. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/24 "2009-06-05T08:00:33Z")
If the Milo demo was legit, why didn’t they do it live? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/25 "2009-06-05T08:39:46Z")
I think Natal is meant to complement rather than substitute traditional controls and I am sure the vast majority of future Xbox games will be playable with the usual controller as well. But for arcade-style games Natal would be great:for example the [Ricochet](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09-yAnwiIRU)game that they demoed seems like huge fun. Or in adventure games, players could choose to play most of the game with the controller and use Natal for the boss fights. What I am really interested in in using Natal to create interactive entertainment and education that goes beyond gaming. For instance instead of Milo what if you could go to ancient Rome and meet a Roman who explains his way of life. You interact with Roman objects, explore the city, learn how to fight gladiators etc. The possibilities are endless. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/26 "2009-06-05T11:33:03Z")
Yeah, I’m highly suspicious of the whole Milo thing too - but not out of technological limitations and whatnot. It’s Peter Molyneux, almighty God-King of empty hype. Of course he’s full of shit ! ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/27 "2009-06-05T14:54:25Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > It’s Peter Molyneux, almighty God-King of empty hype. Of course he’s full of shit ! Oh god, I didn’t realize that was him. This is gonna be ridiculously late and barely resemble the demo we saw. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/28 "2009-06-05T17:00:15Z")
IGN has an [article](http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/991/991348p1.html)about Milo and it appears to be quite real if understandably primitive. > [@](#): > > Now it was finally my turn, and luckily I got a chance to experience the best part – direct speech with Milo. Molyneux asked me to say my name clearly in front of the screen and then take a step back. I did both and then when Peter asked me to take a step forward and I did, Milo immediately recognized me – “Oh, Hello Jeremy!” Milo said before hopping out of his swing and walking up to greet me. Next he quipped, “I see you’re wearing blue today,” in reaction to the blue shirt that I had on. Most impressive and very possibly a landmark in gaming. ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/29 "2009-06-05T17:37:05Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > If the Milo demo was legit, why didn’t they do it live? Adam Sessler, cohost of XPlay on G4 went into the demo room. Here’s his interview on a radio show in LA. [mp3 link](http://www.kevinandbeanarchive.com/audio.php?dir=audio/-------June%2003%20Wednesday-------&file=08%20Adam%20Sessler-G4-2009-06-03-On%20The%20E-3%20Convention.mp3) He talks about playing the games you see in the demo. Plus the ‘breakout’ game. Milo stuff starts at 2min in, and goes for about 1min. If you listen to more he talks about the Sony system being ready by spring of '10. And then his previews of games he saw at e3. Includes Brutal Legend, Rock Band:Beatles, and Modern Warfare2. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/30 "2009-06-05T17:45:04Z")
An [interview](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/e3-project-natals-molyneux-and-milo-interview)with Molyneux about Milo. About Milo’s interactive capabilities: > [@](#): > > Peter Molyneux: Milo can recognise the emotions on your face and the emotions in your voice. He can recognise certain words you say. You can have conversations with him, you can read stories to him. We’re trying to bring all these things together. Some of them are tricks - I’ll be absolutely honest with you - to make you believe Milo’s real. > > He can recognise what you’re wearing. If he notices you’ve got dark bags under your eyes he will say, ‘You look tired today.’ > > Eurogamer: Really? > > Peter Molyneux: Absolutely, all of that works. We’re combining all that together to make you really believe that he understands what you say. > > Let’s try an experiment. When a human voice says something funny, there’s a different tone in the voice. Even though Milo’s not trained to recognise your voice, if you say something funny to him, he should recognise it as something amusing. Try it now. > > Eurogamer: Tell him a joke, you mean? > > Peter Molyneux: Yeah. > > Eurogamer: OK. Milo? > > Milo: [Looks up, smiles and nods] > > Eurogamer: Bloody hell. Er, OK. A Times New Roman walks into a bar. The barman says, ‘We don’t serve your type.’ > > Milo: [Giggles] > > Eurogamer: Bloody hell. > > Peter Molyneux: Now, he didn’t really understand every word you said, but from the tone of your voice he guessed you were telling a joke. Pretty amazing stuff and I bet a lot of the next decade in gaming will be about refining this kind of interaction. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/31 "2009-06-06T17:38:45Z")
I surprised everyone is dooming this thing right out of the gate. It seems novel and opens up new possibilities for games. Granted, I think the Wii controllers are a novelty and no one really likes using them better than a joypad most of the time anyway so what do I know… ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/32 "2009-06-06T18:02:02Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > I surprised everyone is dooming this thing right out of the gate. It seems novel and opens up new possibilities for games. > > Granted, I think the Wii controllers are a novelty and no one really likes using them better than a joypad most of the time anyway so what do I know… Conceptually, I think the idea is interesting. But in practice, I know it’s gonna be just like the Wiimote : a toy that could conceivably make some games go from good to great, but that every game studio out there will feel like they absolutely need to make use of, everywhere, in every game, for no reason other than it’s the latest thing. Remember lens flare ? I rest my case. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/33 "2009-06-06T18:28:28Z")
I like the Wiimote for jiggling during Mario Galaxy, steering in racing games, pointing at the screen like a mouse, etc. I would not like it if I had to dance around the room empty-handed like some moronic mime. Everybody in the Natal game demos looks absolutely ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/34 "2009-06-06T18:32:34Z")
I think it’s a remarkably cool demo. It really is. But I wouldn’t use it. I want to be able to stand up, sit down, grab a handful of chips, take a sip of my drink, talk to the other people in the room, play music in the background, pet the dog, and so forth while I’m playing a game. I don’t want the system to shut down when I tell my son “good night.” I don’t want to run my game car off the road because my cat jumped up in my lap. Maybe it’s because I don’t play sports videogames. But I just can’t see using that. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/35 "2009-06-06T19:13:04Z")
Obligatory [Penny Arcade](http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/6/5/) link. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/36 "2009-06-06T19:17:49Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Pretty amazing stuff and I bet a lot of the next decade in gaming will be about refining this kind of interaction. The way I see it, this is a step on the way to Holodecks. Imagine a sort of chamber you could enter with a 360 degree encompassing screen. In the center, there’s a responsive circular treadmill that allows you to walk around without actually going anywhere, but the game of course responds to your movement as movement throughout the game world. Combine it with this motion-sensing technology to allow you to reach out and interact with objects in the virtual environment. Now that would be a pretty damn cool virtual reality. And setting aside the costs and development for a moment, the technology is practically there already. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/37 "2009-06-06T19:56:42Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Imagine a sort of chamber you could enter with a 360 degree encompassing screen. In the center, there’s a responsive circular treadmill that allows you to walk around without actually going anywhere, but the game of course responds to your movement as movement throughout the game world. Combine it with this motion-sensing technology to allow you to reach out and interact with objects in the virtual environment. Now that would be a pretty damn cool virtual reality. And setting aside the costs and development for a moment, the technology is practically there already. I’ve been wondering if there isn’t a sort of version of the uncanny valley for these sort of videogame technologies where the interface is supposed to mimic real world physical motions and objects. Games like wii golf and Rockstar are passingly similar, but only somewhat to real life activities like playing golf or a guitar. They’re familiar enough to the real activities to give a good metaphor for what we’re supposed to be doing, but abstract enough to make it easy to play and to keep concerns about the fidelity to the mimiced activity from getting in the way of having fun. But at some point, increasingly advanced user interfaces are going to start sending us up the other side of the valley. Games will seem less like fun distractions based on real activities, and more like inferior versions of real actions. If i really wanted to run around and shoot people, I’d go to a paintball course. But when I come home from work, I really just want to play a game that involves minimal physical activity, so I fire up Halo, which has some of the same aspects, but none of the same physical demands. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/38 "2009-06-06T21:03:06Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > If i really wanted to run around and shoot people, I’d go to a paintball course. But when I come home from work, I really just want to play a game that involves minimal physical activity, so I fire up Halo, which has some of the same aspects, but none of the same physical demands. That works for some people - but personally I think I’d have a blast running around in a game that offered a virtual reality type environment. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/39 "2009-06-07T21:25:32Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Imagine a sort of chamber you could enter with a 360 degree encompassing screen. In the center, there’s a responsive circular treadmill that allows you to walk around without actually going anywhere, So what happens if the airplane is put on the treadmill? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599/40 "2009-06-10T06:28:34Z")
Project Natal looks interesting, but I’m damn skeptical it’s going to work anywhere near what the videos show. Several hands-on impressions have already cast doubt on what’s been shown of Milo, such as Kotaku’s impressions: > [@](#): > > I left impressed with the ambition on display but also certain that what we were shown was loosely stitched. Much tightening and tuning will be needed to make Milo feel like more than a collection of tech experiments — to feel alive. It’s exciting that that’s Molyneux’s goal. > [http://kotaku.com/5275204/testing-molyneuxs-milo-a-virtual-boy-with-yes-a-dog](http://kotaku.com/5275204/testing-molyneuxs-milo-a-virtual-boy-with-yes-a-dog) I found it painfully obvious from the demo video that Milo is little more than hopes and dreams–some of what was shown in the video will be in the final product, sure. But to pretend it’s going to come anywhere near what was demonstrated is laughable. I doubt Microsoft has somehow leapfrogged every other voice-recognition company (by several magnitudes, I might add), where it can not only understand every word you say, but the sentences as well. It’s bullshit, pure and simple. Would I like to be proven wrong? Yes. But I won’t be. But let’s forget Milo–clearly another overhyped product from Peter Molyneux (why people keep eating his stuff up, I’ll never know). The technology behind Natal is definitely impressive–and real. However, what’s been shown has been under ideal circumstances. That is, controlled lighting, no interference from others, etc. I want to see how this is going to perform in my living room. I’m having flashbacks to my EyeToy which demanded precision lighting constantly, and could also easily be fooled by others, or by moving the camera around itself. I have no doubts Natal is better, but by how much has yet to be determined. I’m eager to see what actual games are going to be announced for it. Rumor has it Rare’s hard at work on several games–I’d love to see what they’ve got cooking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xbox-project-natal/498599.md?page=3)