# Xema and Crafter Man, you sick fucks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2005, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134 "2005-03-25T02:35:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/41 "2005-03-25T04:36:06Z")
> [@](#): > > If he was living in Ohio at the time of his sick killings, he’s guilty of animal cruelty. > And is posting a record of his criminal activity to the Dope. The only part of the statute you linked to that he could remotely be considered to be violating is the part that forbids one to “needlessly mutilate or kill” an animal. If the stray cats were being nuisances, then the killing of them is not needless, unless you want to go after everyone who puts out mousetraps, in which case you’re a dumbass. > [@](#): > > Ya think? Again, if the cat is being a nuisance, then my killing of it is not needless. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/42 "2005-03-25T04:36:09Z")
> [@August West](#): > > Wisconsin: His location is listed as Ohio. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/43 "2005-03-25T04:38:13Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > The only part of the statute you linked to that he could remotely be considered to be violating is the part that forbids one to “needlessly mutilate or kill” an animal. If the stray cats were being nuisances, then the killing of them is not needless, I’m sorry, I missed the part of the statue where it says “unless the animal is a nusiance.” ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/44 "2005-03-25T04:38:44Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Bullshit. > > I see no mention of ‘stray’ there. There’s a difference between stray and feral. As **Guin** commented earlier: > [@](#): > > I hope none of those animals Crafter\_Man trapped had collars. So do I. You do see the mention of “needlessly kill”, don’t you? A defense could easily be made that a feral cat was not needlessly killed. ---
**Author:** ![Domokun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c77e96/32.png) [@Domokun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Domokun)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/45 "2005-03-25T04:39:25Z")
> [@August West](#): > > I was talking about a squirrel. I do not advocate drowning humans. Well that’s a relief. But they have a similar capacity for feeling pain and suffering either way. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/46 "2005-03-25T04:40:15Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > You do see the mention of “needlessly kill”, don’t you? A defense could easily be made that a feral cat was not needlessly killed. How was his safety threatened in any way, shape, or form? What **need** did he have to kill it? ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/47 "2005-03-25T04:40:38Z")
> [@](#): > > His location is listed as Ohio. And I’m in Texas, and this state’s animal cruelty statute says: > [@](#): > > “Animal” does not include an uncaptured > wild creature or a wild creature whose capture was accomplished by > conduct at issue under this section. If there’s a cat causing trouble on my property, and it has no collar or tags and acts like a wild animal (e.g. shying away from humans), it’s toast. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/48 "2005-03-25T04:42:20Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > And I’m in Texas, Not Ohio. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/49 "2005-03-25T04:43:32Z")
> [@](#): > > How was his safety threatened in any way, shape, or form? What need did he have to kill it? It is a generally recognized right of a property owner to kill humanely wild animals that are making nuisances of themselves, subject to any species- or area-specific regulations. This is where we get the right to set mousetraps, shoot coyotes and foxes, kill venemous snakes, and so on. And yes, if a feral cat is making a nuisance of itself, there is a need to kill it, which is not prohibited by the Ohio statute. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/50 "2005-03-25T04:43:39Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > There’s a difference between stray and feral. As **Guin** commented earlier: > > So do I. > > You do see the mention of “needlessly kill”, don’t you? A defense could easily be made that a feral cat was not needlessly killed. Well, shooting strays may not be something I LIKE, but it happens. However, going to all the effort it would take to trap them, then dumping them in a creek to drown is disgusting, stray or not. And unless that cat was acting out and out wild, it could have been a beloved pet who was allowed outside, or else escaped by accident. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/51 "2005-03-25T04:45:21Z")
Sorry, but squirrel does not equal human in my morality. In a perfect world we would release all of the attic-destroying squirrels into a giant forest that overflows with hickory nuts and there isn’t a highway or hawk to be found, but I don’t live in that world so I offer the best solution with the minimum of suffering I can devise. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/52 "2005-03-25T04:47:13Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > It is a generally recognized right of a property owner to kill humanely wild animals that are making nuisances of themselves, subject to any species- or area-specific regulations. This is where we get the right to set mousetraps, shoot coyotes and foxes, kill venemous snakes, and so on. Funny, there is no mention of this ‘generally recognized right’ in the statues I quoted. Nusiance =/= **need** to kill. > [@yBeayf](#): > > And yes, if a feral cat is making a nuisance of itself, there is a need to kill it, which is not prohibited by the Ohio statute. What exactly is the need? “It was annoying me, so I **had** to kill it!” ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/53 "2005-03-25T04:48:59Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > How was his safety threatened in any way, shape, or form? What **need** did he have to kill it? Well, I don’t know. He didn’t go into detail. Perhaps he lets his parrots sit in the trees in his front yard. Perhaps his flowers were destroyed by the cats digging after moles. Perhaps whatever. The mere existance of that statute does not per se prove that he violated that statute. That’s all. Killing an animal does not fall under any “make my day” law that I’ve ever heard of. One does not have to prove that the animal was barging into ones house, and one feared for ones life. There are any number of valid reasons to kill an animal besides personal safety. As I said, I wouldn’t do it that way. That doesn’t make his way illegal, merely immoral to me. (And to you.) ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/54 "2005-03-25T04:50:35Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > I’m not trying to be a **Crafter\_man** apologist here, he’s definately a screwball that should go on some kind of list… > > But. > > He too is a predator. The cat, in this example, is prey. It’s honestly not all that different than hunting a deer with a rifle (which is no better, I’ll never understand hunters). > Shoot a deer in the chest, and if your round goes through the lungs, the same drowning effect happens, only with blood, not water. > > **Crafter\_man** is an example of how some of us in the gene pool have failed to make it to the deep end. Is he EATING them? Cause I got no qualms if he is. Otherwise, it is quite different from hunting a deer. Unless we’re talking about the deer hunters that want nothing more than a set of antlers to prove their ‘manhood’. Fortunately, all of the hunters I have known are more interested in eating the animal than mounting it on their wall. However there are some nutless assholes out there that want nothing more than to attempt to prove their ‘manhood’. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/55 "2005-03-25T04:52:06Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > As I said, I wouldn’t do it that way. That doesn’t make his way illegal, merely immoral to me. (And to you.) You are correct, IANAL and I may be wrong. I don’t think I am, but then again, right now I’m positively livid. I’m going to leave this thread now, I’ve said what I have to say, and I’m at the edge of reason. Nothing personal against anybody who disagreed with me in this thread, I’m just very emotional right now. ---
**Author:** ![Domokun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c77e96/32.png) [@Domokun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Domokun)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/56 "2005-03-25T04:53:38Z")
> [@August West](#): > > Sorry, but squirrel does not equal human in my morality. In a perfect world we would release all of the attic-destroying squirrels into a giant forest that overflows with hickory nuts and there isn’t a highway or hawk to be found, but I don’t live in that world so I offer the best solution with the minimum of suffering I can devise. You can have empathy with animals without equating them 1:1 with humans you know. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/57 "2005-03-25T05:05:22Z")
If these cats were accepting food from humans and coming close to their house, they’re not feral. True feral cats would never allow themselves to be semi-adopted by a family. There was a gang of feral cats in my old town, and I couldn’t even get within ten feet of them before they’d run. There are also stray cats in the town, which don’t act at all like the ferals. In fact, they act exactly like pets. One of them lived in my house for nine months, and was the nicest cat I’ve ever met. If these cats are coming onto the neighbors’ porch, that means they can be tamed and kept as pets. Wild animals (which feral cats are) don’t normally walk around in civilization. So yeah, I don’t think the cats in **Xema** ’s post are feral. Just stray. Which, IMO, makes killing them despicable. But for some reason there’s a subset of people who see cats as disposable creatures on par with mice and squirrels. I’ll never understand the singular hatred some people have for cats. It’s like the Dark Ages never ended. Or the cat-phobic part of it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/58 "2005-03-25T05:05:57Z")
Do any of you cat lovers realize exactly how devastating stray and feral cats can be on local bird populations? And birds fill an ecological niche that stray and feral cats just don’t. Circle of Life 1, Feral Cats 0. Would I trap and drown stray and feral cats? No. But I wouldn’t hesitate to pop one with a .22 rifle, either, and dispose of its body out in the woods (worms gotta eat, too). And I say all of this as a very animal-friendly person. Exception: people-friendly strays (cats and dogs) I take in, clean up, get 'em checked by a local vet, and find them good homes. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/59 "2005-03-25T05:12:01Z")
Also I’d like to point out that the very fact that **Xema** wants to hide the killing from the neighbors proves that he/she knows how wrong it is. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/60 "2005-03-25T05:13:07Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > If there’s a cat causing trouble on my property, and it has no collar or tags and acts like a wild animal (e.g. shying away from humans), it’s toast. Are you scanning for the microchips? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134.md?page=4)