# Xema and Crafter Man, you sick fucks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2005, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134 "2005-03-25T02:35:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/61 "2005-03-25T05:28:43Z")
I somewhat have to side with Xena and Crafter\_Man here. I was raised in the 'burbs, but now I live in the country, and critters of all sorts can become a problem. In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=196514&highlight=darned+skunks), I detailed how I nearly had to (very reluctently) exterminate some skunks. Luckily for both of us, the animals sought other spaces just as I was preparing to nuke them. I didn’t want to do it, but felt I had little choice at that time – my home was besieged by potentially rabid skunks. I called animal control, and was told they’d do nothing if the skunks weren’t in house. What do you do – move? A few years ago my neighbors had a similar problem with cats: they have a barn out back that a bunch of ferel cats moved into. They called animal control, who removed 38 (IIRC) cats from the property. I have no idea why they got action from AC and I didn’t a couple of years later. (Possibly because my neighbor is a retired police officer?) In any case: Crafter\_man didn’t describe his problem adequately, so I can’t judge if he we being cruel or lazy or whatever. But his situation may have been similar to my neighbors’, including an unresponsive AC. If I’d had close to 40 feral cats on my property, I’d darned well euthanize them as best I could if they were causing problems. Drowning seems awful, but a gunshot is less safe and unlawful in many cases, and, esp. in rural areas, it can be really impractical to drive 40 cats (!) to a shelter. YMMV And, by the way, I have two cats, and keep them indoors. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/62 "2005-03-25T05:54:44Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Drowning seems awful, but a gunshot is less safe and unlawful in many cases, and, esp. in rural areas, it can be really impractical to drive 40 cats (!) to a shelter. YMMV > > And, by the way, I have two cats, and keep them indoors. If it’s impractical to drive that many cats to a shelter, then it’s impractical for him to drive them to his uncle’s, in order to drown them. THAT is what I am pitting. If he wanted to get rid of them, take them to a shelter-yes, most likely some will be put down, but humanely. They won’t spend their last minutes on earth drowning in an ice cold creek while trapped in a cage. THAT’s fucking barbaric. ---
**Author:** ![mischievous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mischievous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mischievous)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/63 "2005-03-25T05:57:54Z")
For what it’s worth, I’ve seen animals (rodents) euthanized with carbon dioxide, and it’s a pretty long and brutal process. I think that drowning in a fully submerged (so they can’t prolong it by swimming) cage is probably a faster and more humane way to go. Of course, a lethal injection by a competent vet is even better, but not always feasible for feral animals. mischievous ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/64 "2005-03-25T06:08:44Z")
> [@mischievous](#): > > I think that drowning in a fully submerged (so they can’t prolong it by swimming) cage is probably a faster and more humane way to go. Considering that most cats have a severe aversion to water, I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/65 "2005-03-25T07:33:26Z")
So wild cats are being a “nuisance” to you and you feel like you can kill it. Inconvenience as opposed to a life. Sick fucks. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/66 "2005-03-25T07:35:27Z")
kill “them.” Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/67 "2005-03-25T12:16:06Z")
> [@mischievous](#): > > Of course, a lethal injection by a competent vet is even better, but not always feasible for feral animals. If the animal is trapped in a portable cage, I humbly suggest that it IS feasible. The point of no-kill traps is so that the animal can be relocated or humanely put down. Drowning does not exactly fit the bill of humane euthanization. Not in my book, at least. A couple of phone calls can get you an arrangement with Animal Control or a local farm that wants feral barn cats for rodent control. No drowning necessary, amazing what modern technology and a touch of empathy can do. I don’t think the issue is trapping and killing feral cats. It’s HOW you do it. ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/68 "2005-03-25T12:48:33Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > So wild cats are being a “nuisance” to you and you feel like you can kill it. Inconvenience as opposed to a life. Sick fucks. “Nuisance” probably isn’t the right word. Cats (both feral and domesticated) can wreak total havoc on wild-life. Why do cat-people feel that their precious cats have more right to life than for instance sparrows? Now, I don’t advocate shooting or drowning cats, but these cats should really be taken out of the equation (preferably humanely) if you want some semblance of wildlife in your neighbourhood. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/69 "2005-03-25T12:58:22Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > So wild cats are being a “nuisance” to you and you feel like you can kill it. Inconvenience as opposed to a life. Sick fucks. Wow. After seeing responses like this, and the “the cat has just as much a right to live as you” type responses, I now feel totally dirty for condemning **Crafter\_Man** , even though I do think drowning them (especially if you’re not in a rural area–he said he was in city limits!) is pretty sick. But if by opposing **Crafter\_Man** means I have to associate with his more vocal opponents, I may have to consider changing my definition of “humane” to include “burning at the stake.” Then **Crafter\_Man** , being the sick fuck that he is, could have his own little feline auto de fe, complete with 'lil pointy yellow kitty hats! ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/70 "2005-03-25T12:59:34Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Not to mention, sometimes cats DO get out accidentally. Didn’t **margin** pit a friend who was cat sitting for her, who let loose one of her indoor only cats? Oh, I don’t believe it was accidental, but yes, my kitty got loose, so Crafter\_Man could very well be poisoning some poor old cat that’s been booted. In conclusion? I’d like to hold Crafter\_Man down in a cage underwater—along with everybody who doesn’t have a problem with it----and see how peaceful it is. Sick fuck. I mean, that’s what Susan Smith did to her kids, and that was part of the reason that she’s so despised----it’s a a horrible, awful death. And because it can’t be said enough: What a sick fuck. A sick, twisted, gets-off-on-overpowering-things-that-are-lots-smaller-than-him sick fuck. And then bats his eyelashes and pretends to be innocent sick fuck. Christ, there’s a reason the feds think that cruelty to animals is a huge red flag—it can be a warm up to cruelty to humans. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/71 "2005-03-25T13:10:06Z")
Even if you buy the argument that there are truly feral cats running rampant and threatening all sorts of mischief and killing untold trillions of birds, the almost boasting attitude by some is the thing that is most off-putting. To trap and kill animals that are a _true_ problem (and not just an “inconvenience” one) may indeed be necessary, yes, I understand how that works. But there’s a world of difference between saying in essence “Yes, I have to do it sometimes, and I don’t like it but it’s necessary” and discussing using them as targets for rifles, poisoning them, drowning, burning, etc. In any urban or suburban environment there is in fact a very good chance that a cat is a stray, or perhaps the city does not have a collar ordinance for cats. To kill cats in those environments, without even trying to call animal control, seems not only unnecessary, it seems disturbing. And it seems **fiscally stupid** , too. If one of my indoor cats (who aren’t collared) was to escape, I would put up signs offering “$100 reward, no questions asked”. After a few days, I’d raise it to $250 and see how that motivates people to look. I somehow doubt that the cat killers catch a cat, check the papers/neightborhood, _then_ kill it - so killing what might be someone’s pet could be throwing away good money. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/72 "2005-03-25T13:26:00Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > Even if you buy the argument that there are truly feral cats running rampant and threatening all sorts of mischief and killing untold trillions of birds, the almost boasting attitude by some is the thing that is most off-putting. To trap and kill animals that are a _true_ problem (and not just an “inconvenience” one) may indeed be necessary, yes, I understand how that works. But there’s a world of difference between saying in essence “Yes, I have to do it sometimes, and I don’t like it but it’s necessary” and discussing using them as targets for rifles, poisoning them, drowning, burning, etc. > > In any urban or suburban environment there is in fact a very good chance that a cat is a stray, or perhaps the city does not have a collar ordinance for cats. To kill cats in those environments, without even trying to call animal control, seems not only unnecessary, it seems disturbing. And it seems **fiscally stupid** , too. If one of my indoor cats (who aren’t collared) was to escape, I would put up signs offering “$100 reward, no questions asked”. After a few days, I’d raise it to $250 and see how that motivates people to look. I somehow doubt that the cat killers catch a cat, check the papers/neightborhood, _then_ kill it - so killing what might be someone’s pet could be throwing away good money. When I was searching for my kitty, and putting up reward signs, I got taunted by people like Crafter\_Man: “I killed your cat! Har har har har har!” ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/73 "2005-03-25T15:55:18Z")
> [@Amazon Floozy Goddess](#): > > I agree with you, **Guin** , this is totally fucked up. Drowning cats??? It doesn’t matter if they’re stray or not - it’s a heartless and cruel thing to do, to any animal. > > BTW, if **Crafter\_Man** can do this sort of thing, I guess that explains why he has no trouble treating fat people like shit. For him, it’s a step up. Hey, it’s better than taking two weeks to starve someone to death, know what I mean? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/74 "2005-03-25T15:59:18Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Hey, it’s better than taking two weeks to starve someone to death, know what I mean? Oh, no you didn’t. Only if that person is as alert and aware as a cat, which she isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/75 "2005-03-25T16:11:47Z")
> [@Machetero](#): > > There isn’t anything wrong with drowning a trapped cats. It’s really no different than using carbon dioxide. It’s just a traditional method of euthanasia. No, it’s not. It may be a traditional manner of killing animals, but it’s not euthanasia by any stretch. It continues to piss me off that the Administrators, so quick to close threads dealing with illegal drug use, illegal file sharing, and the like, have no problems with people advocating felony animal cruelty. If I’ve missed cases where such folks have been properly warned, my apologies–but I spend a fair amount of time in animal threads, and in my experience, assholes like **Machetero** and **Crafter Man** get away with advocating all sorts of crimes in those threads. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/76 "2005-03-25T16:12:25Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Hey, it’s better than taking two weeks to starve someone to death, know what I mean? AHAHAHAHAHHA…I gotta say, I didn’t see this coming. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/77 "2005-03-25T16:13:44Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Hey, it’s better than taking two weeks to starve someone to death, know what I mean? I am finding it difficult to believe that anyone with at least a single celled organism between his ears would say something so monumentally stupid as this. Please tell me I am mistaken, and this remark was never made. ---
**Author:** ![Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/soul_brother_number_two/32/3515_2.png) [@Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soul_Brother_Number_Two)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/78 "2005-03-25T16:21:31Z")
Believe it. That remark is vintage Airman. If I am not mistaken, he’ll come back to defend it, shoving his shoe ever further into his mouth, and then, after a bunch of folks call him on his prehistoric viewpoint, eventually he will grudgingly and halfheartedly semi-apologize for it. He should save his response and use it as a template for future adventures. It would save him some typing. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/79 "2005-03-25T16:22:00Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Hey, it’s better than taking two weeks to starve someone to death, know what I mean? Please, do NOT turn my thread into another Schiavo debate. There are numerous other threads to do this in-don’t bring it here. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/80 "2005-03-25T16:27:16Z")
> [@vinryk](#): > > “Nuisance” probably isn’t the right word. > Cats (both feral and domesticated) can wreak total havoc on wild-life. > Why do cat-people feel that their precious cats have more right to life than for instance sparrows? Cats are more intelligent than sparrows. They can also in most cases be domesticated. Also, the common sparrow is hardly an endangered species. I agree that most feral cats can’t be domesticated and should be (humanely) put down, but there are a lot of nice, friendly stray cats out there. For instance, I used to live in a college town, so most of the strays were pets that dumb students would abandon after graduation, cats that would make perfectly good pets if they were given some food and a place to live. My cat, who is the tamest cat I’ve ever seen, was one of those abandoned college kid strays. The fact that some sick fuck like **Crafter\_Man** would think she was feral and try to drown her makes me want to throw up. An animal life isn’t equatable to a human one, but that doesn’t mean animals are disposable. They feel pain just like we do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134.md?page=5)