# Xema and Crafter Man, you sick fucks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2005, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134 "2005-03-25T02:35:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/81 "2005-03-25T16:36:26Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Please, do NOT turn my thread into another Schiavo debate. There are numerous other threads to do this in-don’t bring it here. Fine by me. I just added my two cents. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/82 "2005-03-25T16:38:31Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Fine by me. I just added my two cents. I don’t think so. That remark wasn’t worth two fucking Turkish lira, let alone two cents. ---
**Author:** ![LateComer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@LateComer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LateComer)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/83 "2005-03-25T16:47:01Z")
There is an organization called [Alley Cat Allies](http://www.alleycat.org/) that advocates the catching/fixing/releasing of feral cats. The idea is that killing them just causes new cats to move into the territory and reproduce while fixing and releasing them keeps new (fertile) cats from moving in while controlling the population. Their thesis is that killing feral cats just makes the problem worse. I’m not advocating this POV (though I do buy it to some extent), I’m just relaying it as it seems germane to the “conversation.” ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/84 "2005-03-25T17:14:17Z")
**Doors** that was weak. This thread and your two cents have nothing what-so-fucking-ever to do with one another. Put your spoon down and go away, goon. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/85 "2005-03-25T17:27:19Z")
Stray cats can be a problem. But that is what animal services should be able to deal with. If animal services are not doing their job, then perhapse there is some reason to capture strays and deliver them to pet rescue centers to deal with them as appropriate. Too many strays in an area can and do decimate the bird population in that area so I am not convinced fixing and rereleasing is a good idea. But taking it upon yourself to kill strays is very unlikely to be a good idea (excpet perhapse for farmers, maybe) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/86 "2005-03-25T17:31:18Z")
[Here are some places in Ohio](http://www.petwork.com/rescue_cats_oh.html) that spay and neuter feral cats. The theory, as pointed out by **LateComer** , is that the colonies will eventually disappear. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/87 "2005-03-25T17:51:37Z")
> [@margin](#): > > \ > I mean, that’s what Susan Smith did to her kids, and that was part of the reason that she’s so despised----it’s a a horrible, awful death. > \ > \*\* Christ, there’s a reason the feds think that cruelty to animals is a huge red flag—it can be a warm up to cruelty to humans.\*\* Bolding mine. Exactly. I’ve known people who trapped feral cats and taken them to the animal shelter because they were ravaging the bird population, but I think if they had told me they’d drowned the cats I’d be hard pressed not to slap them starstruck, and would avoid them like the plague ever after. I have hopes that **Xema** will be rational and humane in finding a solution to the predation problem, but **Crafter\_Man** is unrepentent. **Xema** at least can see some reason and has discarded the idea of putting poison out. If he does take the strays to the shelter, chances are they can be fostered and eventually find a good home. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/88 "2005-03-25T17:57:58Z")
> [@Machetero](#): > > There isn’t anything wrong with drowning a trapped cats. It’s really no different than using carbon dioxide. It’s just a traditional method of euthanasia. > > It isn’t nice to be an irresponsible pet owner with no respect for native wildlife, especially song birds. Do the decent thing and be a responsible pet owner and keep it in the house for both your cat’s sake and wildlife’s sake. But he was trapping cats the could have been neighbors pets. Taking them to the animal shelter gives the owner of a lost pet a chance, albiet small, to find their friend. I agree that pets should be controlled, but pets escape, occasionally. By just randomly trapping any cat that wanders by, he’s also destroying someone else’s property. That’s theft and vandalisim, at least. Before someone goes on about the pet owner breaking the law too, be aware that some states don’t have leash or licence laws for cats. California considers, (or did when I lived there in the 90’s) all cats wild life. ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/89 "2005-03-25T18:37:19Z")
These fuckwads who are so proudly and belligerently crowing about how they remorselessy tortured cats to death, or would if they had the chance, while disingenuously denying that it _is_ torture, are sadistic pieces of shit. They won’t admit it, of course, but deep down they know it’s true. That a non-dangerous animal had the audacity to come onto their property just gives them the excuse they need. Then they act all aghast and indignant when someone suggests there might have been an alternative; it’s their _right_ to kill helpless creatures. And the excuse that cats kill birds is just that – an excuse. So out of the goodness of their hearts they take it upon themselves to protect these poor widdle birdies that are being killed…by killing other animals. Right, that makes a lot of fucking sense. :rolleyes: That’s the kind of “logic” abortion clinic bombers use. Anyone who does any harm whatsoever to my cats **WILL** have the exact same thing done to him. Think that makes _me_ the nut? Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/90 "2005-03-25T18:43:20Z")
> [@August West](#): > > Wisconsin: > “No person may treat any animal, whether belonging to the person or another, in a cruel manner” > > Sounds like feral cats are fair game. [Not just yet](http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/index.php?ntid=31029&ntpid=3). > [@](#): > > Hunters across the state will be asked to vote next month on whether cats should be hunted. > > A La Crosse man who hunts and traps wants to make free- roaming domestic cats an “unprotected species” that could be shot at will by anyone with a small-game hunting license. > > Mark Smith’s suggestion will be placed before hunters on April 11 at the Wisconsin Conservation Congress spring hearings in each of the state’s 72 counties. Smith, a 48-year- old firefighter for the city of La Crosse, said any cat not under its owner’s direct control, or which does not have a collar, should be considered fair game. > > “If I’m in the woods and see a cat that doesn’t have a collar, then I could shoot it,” Smith said. “It gives people some leeway if they want to remove cats.” ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/91 "2005-03-25T18:44:22Z")
> [@Nordic](#): > > Anyone who does any harm whatsoever to my cats **WILL** have the exact same thing done to him. Think that makes _me_ the nut? Fuck you. Comitting a felony to get revenge on someone who harms your cat is just as sick as harming the cat in the first place. They’re animals. Should we torture them? No. Should we view them as equals? No. It’s all about that happly place in the middle between the fruitcake viewpoint and the sick fucking psychopath viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/92 "2005-03-25T18:48:05Z")
Right, and while I still am willing to give **Xema** the benefit of the doubt (provided he realizes WHY poisoning these animals is a bad idea), **Crafter\_Man** is fair game. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/93 "2005-03-25T18:48:16Z")
> [@](#): > > These fuckwads who are so proudly and belligerently crowing about how they remorselessy tortured cats to death, or would if they had the chance, while disingenuously denying that it is torture, are sadistic pieces of shit. And the gobshites who let their cats roam across gardens digging up plants and shitting everywhere are nothing but vandals. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/94 "2005-03-25T18:53:45Z")
For the record, domestic cats, whether feral, “stray” (not really different from feral in my book), or “outdoor” pets, have a very serious effect on native wildlife. From [here](http://wildlife.wisc.edu/extension/catfly3.htm) > [@](#): > > Although rural free-ranging cats have greater access to wild animals and undoubtedly take the greatest toll, even urban house pets take live prey when allowed outside. . . > > Recent research [10] suggests that rural free-ranging domestic cats in Wisconsin may be killing between 8 and 217 million birds each year. **The most reasonable estimates indicate that 39 million birds are killed in the state each year. Nationwide, rural cats probably kill over a billion small mammals and hundreds of millions of birds each year.** Urban and suburban cats add to this toll. Some of these kills are house mice, rats and other species considered pests, but many are native songbirds and mammals whose populations are already stressed by other factors, such as habitat destruction and pesticide pollution. > > Despite the difficulties in showing the effect most predators have on their prey, cats are known to have serious impacts on small mammals and birds. Worldwide, cats may have been involved in the extinction of more bird species than any other cause, except habitat destruction. Cats are contributing to the endangerment of populations of birds such as Least Terns, Piping Plovers and Loggerhead Shrikes. In Florida, marsh rabbits in Key West have been threatened by predation from domestic cats [11]. Cats introduced by people living on the barrier islands of Florida’s coast have depleted several unique species of mice and woodrats to near extinction [12, 13]. > > Not only do cats prey on many small mammals and birds, but they can outnumber and compete with native predators. Domestic cats eat many of the same animals that native predators do. When present in large numbers, cats can reduce the availability of prey for native predators, such as hawks [14] and weasels [15]. > > Free-ranging domestic cats may also transmit new diseases to wild animals. Domestic cats have spread feline leukemia virus to mountain lions [16] and may have recently infected the endangered Florida Panther with feline panleukopenia (feline distemper) and an immune deficiency disease [17]. These diseases may pose a serious threat to this rare species. Some free-ranging domestic cats also carry several diseases that are easily transmitted to humans, including rabies and toxoplasmosis [18]. Bolding mine. Certainly control measures should be undertaken in the most humane way that is both practical and economically feasible. (For the record, I don’t think that includes drowning captured individuals). Unfortunately, sentimentality about these introduced predators can often make controlling their populations much more difficult and expensive. Those who are defending “animal rights” on behalf of cats are really just making a value judgement that these animals are more valuable than the many native species that they kill and whose continued existence they threaten. ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/95 "2005-03-25T18:58:36Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Comitting a felony to get revenge on someone who harms your cat is just as sick as harming the cat in the first place. I knew someone was going to say this. Look, my cats are sweet, gentle, affectionate little creatures, and I’m rather attached to them. That doesn’t make me a fruitcake, that makes me a typical pet owner. Right or wrong, I would have an emotional reaction if someone hurt them. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/96 "2005-03-25T18:58:51Z")
It seems to me that a lot of you are judging people in other circumstances by your own morality. I grew up in rural Saskatchewan - farmers look after their animals, they do not torture animals, but they would kill an unwanted cat in a heartbeat. That doesn’t make them sociopaths - they just have a different outlook than you. If **Crafter\_Man** was raised this way, I wouldn’t consider him a sociopath, either. As a city-dweller, I would trap unwanted cats on my yard and take them to the shelter. But I’m not going to judge people in other situations. As for housepets getting trapped, if my indoor cats are in **Xema’s** yard, I’m right behind them, trying to catch them and get them back in the house. If your cats are roaming in an area where it’s not allowed (like here), what happens to them is _your_ responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amazon_Floozy_Goddess)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/97 "2005-03-25T18:59:52Z")
> [@leander](#): > > This has got to be one of the dumbest things I’ve heard here…and I mean that in the nicest possible way. Seriously, think about it – animals have “as much a right to live as [humans]”? Fowl, fish, cattle, etc.? > > Anyway, there’s a big difference between domesticated animals and wild ones. I doubt Americans are very familiar with feral cats (I certainly wasn’t until I spend some time “down under”), and so when someone speaks of killing _any_ felines, the typical reaction is “poor kitty-kitty”. That’s simply ignorance. > > Eliminating a feral cat is actually a good thing; killing someone’s housepet is fucked. It’s not clear to me which ones **Crafter** is referring to. Perhaps that could be clarified before you start a lynch mob. Okay, let me clarify here. This is an issue that has a lot of gray areas. If a stray/wild animal is passing through your property in search of food or shelter, I see no problem with that. To kill it just because it was there would be cruel. If they’re not directly bothering you, just let them be, and they’ll likely move on. If that same animal makes threatening moves towards you or others, or tries to attack you, you have every right to defend yourself. This may include killing it. If it is simply hanging around your property looking for food and runs when you approach, thereby not causing harm to you but simply being a “nuisance”, then call animal control. There are other options to take before it comes down to killing. But don’t kill out of cruelty or because you felt like it and the animal was there…that’s just wrong. And, to the mention that it was hoped that **Crafter\_Man** didn’t kill any cats with collars…if someone’s indoor pet had escaped, it may very well have not have a collar. I know several people whose indoor cats don’t wear collars. So it’s entirely possible he could have killed someone’s pet. ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/98 "2005-03-25T19:01:19Z")
> [@+MDI](#): > > And the gobshites who let their cats roam across gardens digging up plants and shitting everywhere are nothing but vandals. So naturally the cats deserve to die horribly. The plants must be avenged! ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/99 "2005-03-25T19:02:34Z")
I’m gonna hate myself for this, but… I drowning your cat! ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134/100 "2005-03-25T19:06:44Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > It seems to me that a lot of you are judging people in other circumstances by your own morality. I grew up in rural Saskatchewan - farmers look after their animals, they do not torture animals, but they would kill an unwanted cat in a heartbeat. That doesn’t make them sociopaths - they just have a different outlook than you. If **Crafter\_Man** was raised this way, I wouldn’t consider him a sociopath, either. So how did the farmers kill them? Did they trap them and then submerge them in an icy Saskatchewan stream? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xema-and-crafter-man-you-sick-fucks/296134.md?page=6)