# Xenophon. Liar and Hypocrite **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 27, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640 "2003-03-27T23:31:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/1 "2003-03-27T23:31:01Z")
In [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=172598) this thread, Xenophon waltzes in and accuses me of lying multiple times without any kind of reasonable provocation or justification. Fuck him, he’s a worthless liar, and a hypocrite. Instead of simply saying he’s wrong he’s trying to create this tortured construct to justify his bad behavior. Xenophon rarely makes positive arguments. Instead he plays meaningless semantic games. Fuck him. H’es not worth my time. ---
**Author:** ![ultress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/7c8e57/32.png) [@ultress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultress)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/2 "2003-03-27T23:39:15Z")
So why did you start a Pit thread on him then? It would have been better to just drop from the thread and ignore him if he bothers you. He’s just one person in 12,000. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/3 "2003-03-27T23:42:48Z")
For a second I thought you meant the _real_ Xenophon! ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/4 "2003-03-28T00:18:21Z")
Just wait’ll Gryllus gets home!!! ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/5 "2003-03-28T00:24:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultress \* > \*\*So why did you start a Pit thread on him then? It would have been better to just drop from the thread and ignore him if he bothers you. He’s just one person in 12,000. \*\* Because if I just ignored him and went away, he would be getting away with it, and I think that’s what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/6 "2003-03-28T00:32:46Z")
Y’know, odd things can happen when the object of a Pit thread comes and tries to “refute” the Pitting; either an ungodly pileon of the Pittee starts up, or of the Pitter, or some sort of free-for-all ugliness ensues. I guess decorum requires that I acknowledge the Pitting, and then quietly let the rest of the participants resolve the degree of my crapulence. OK. I’m gratified that I’m not worth your time, though; that bodes well for the brevity of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/7 "2003-03-28T00:37:21Z")
Or you could have the class to acknowledge that your actions were wrong. You could apologize for making unwarranted accusations. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/8 "2003-03-28T01:43:39Z")
**Xenophon** , crapulence means eating and drinking too much. **Scylla** , now that I’ve looked at the linked thread, I agree with **Xenophon** , and feel that you’re reacting a bit precipitously. I’m sure if we all sit down together, we can resolve this peacefully. On the other hand, go screw yourself, ya fucking baby. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/9 "2003-03-28T01:47:25Z")
As Eugene V. Debs is my witness, **Scylla** , no one, but no one, is as quick to fling the word “liar” at another poster, and usually with so little provocation. Heres how it looks to me: not being able to inflict any real rhetorical damage on the central issue (as stated in the OP) you indulged yourself in a deconstruction of Mr. Hersh’s reporting style. Nothing wrong with that, in and of itself. But it buggers the issue, doesn’t it? As you frequently do, you took a somewhat “lawyerly” approach, applying spin control that would make Sandy Koufax blush. Again, nothing wrong with that. Rather enjoyed it, myself, its a classic example of your work. Now comes friend **Xeno** , and I think this is the “offending” sentence: “…By which I mean you’re saying some things which you seem to understand aint exactly so.” When I read this, my clear understanding was that he was tweaking you (rather mildly) for just that: spin. By no stretch of the imagination could that merit the offense you have taken. Honest. No kidding, Operation Candor, straight from the shoulder. One has to wonder if you conduct yourself in real life as you do here. Do you have a fist fight every time you go to a bar? Do you keep a set of dueling pistols in your hope chest? **Xeno** engaged you lightly, humorously, and referenced each and every point _from your very words_. No _way_ did he deserve the vitriol you displayed. You’re what, just short of 40? _Companero_, if you don’t learn to lighten up, you’ll never live to see your daughters ask you for money for graduate school. Art History. Worse, poor **Xeno** is curled up with his banky sobbing himself to sleep. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/10 "2003-03-28T01:54:59Z")
> [@](#): > > …crapulence means eating and drinking too much. I _knew_ I should’ve gone with “fucktitude”. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/11 "2003-03-28T02:18:40Z")
Oh gimme a break, **Scylla**. > [@](#): > > “The suitability of the tubes for that purpose had been disputed, but this time the argument that Iraq had a nuclear program under way was buttressed by a new and striking fact: the C.I.A. had recently received intelligence showing that, between 1999 and 2001, Iraq had attempted to buy five hundred tons of uranium oxide from Niger, one of the world?s largest producers. The uranium, known as ?yellow cake,? can be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors; if processed differently, it can also be enriched to make weapons. Five tons can produce enough weapon-grade uranium for a bomb.” > > \*\*Hersh has not come out and said that the “yellow cake” from Niger was part of the classified briefing. He does not say that his two sources say so. He simply states that the yellow cake data would have strongly supported the argument that Iraq had a nuclear weapons program. > > Hersh has made no argument that the yellow cake from Niger was discussed. \*\* > Quite the contrary: > > “When the C.I.A. spokesman William Harlow was asked for comment, he denied that Tenet had briefed the senators on Niger.” > > It appears the Hersh has constructed this part of the piece in such a manner that the yellow cake was a major part of the briefing while in fact he presents no evidence that it was so, and indeed presents evidence to show that it was not. The briefing in question was the September 24 briefing to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The article goes on to say: > [@](#): > > On the same day, in London, Tony Blair’s government made public a dossier containing much of the information **that the Senate committee was being given in secret** —that Iraq had sought to buy “significant quantities of uranium” from an unnamed African country, “despite having no active civil nuclear power programme that could require it.” The allegation attracted immediate attention; a headline in the London Guardian declared, “AFRICAN GANGS OFFER ROUTE TO URANIUM.” It then adds: > [@](#): > > Two days later, Secretary of State Colin Powell, appearing before a closed hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, also cited Iraq’s attempt to obtain uranium from Niger as evidence of its persistent nuclear ambitions. IOW, Hersh is saying the things you’re saying he’s not saying. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/12 "2003-03-28T02:29:14Z")
RTF: I disagree. Hersh strongly implies that the issue of the yellow cake was discussed at the meeting. He does not explicitly state it though. That’s how I parse it. Since we disagree I guess that makes me disingenuous and dishonest in your eyes as well. I hope you’ll understand if I’m not as interested in the specific matter up for debate as I am in the issue as to whether Xenophon was justified in calling me dishonest several times as his opening salvo into the debate. Is it your opinion that he was justified? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/13 "2003-03-28T02:42:34Z")
elucidator: > [@](#): > > By no stretch of the imagination could that merit the offense you have taken. Honest. No kidding, Operation Candor, straight from the shoulder. One has to wonder if you conduct yourself in real life as you do here. Do you have a fist fight every time you go to a bar? Do you keep a set of dueling pistols in your hope chest? Well, since we’re being and honest and all that, I seem to recall that **you** were the one who literally challenged me to a duel over something similar not too long ago, so umm… Pot, Kettle, Black and all that. You certainly don’t like being called dishonest, and you certainly get pretty worked up about it whenever it happens. In this case there was no provocation or call for it whatsoever. I came to that thread literally at your invitation. I stressed that I wanted to avoid the usual bickering did I not? I came bearing the olive branch, and Xenophon attacked my honesty multiple times in his initial post. I even tried to back away and leave it alone, but he continued baiting me. Why should I not, according to your own practiced criteria be pissed? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/14 "2003-03-28T03:44:16Z")
Yeah, I do remember that! Do _you_ remember that the first person to say “liar” was you? Do you remember that first person to say “liar” is _always_ you? Do you know how many times you have seized somebody by the lapels and screamed “liar” in his face till the viens stand out in your neck? Countless. Literally countless. You got a Jeckyl-Hyde thing going, buddy. You can be relatively entertaining, if _relentlessly_ self-revelatory. But if anybody trods upon your oh-so-delicate dignity you lose it. All of it. You’re as prickly as methadrine addicted porcupine. Get over yourself. Life is too short to live like that. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/15 "2003-03-28T05:06:24Z")
“Viens”? ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/16 "2003-03-28T05:42:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > \*\*“Viens”? \*\* Like “veins” but the blood flows backward. Quite painful I hear. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/17 "2003-03-28T06:19:51Z")
Yeah, ‘viens’. It’s French for ‘get over here’. My wife’s got a pair of those, but they stand out from her chest, not her neck. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/18 "2003-03-28T07:42:37Z")
So you accuse someone of lying because they called you a liar. You don’t like when someone calls you a liar but you can use that insult on another AND cal that person a hypocrite. This lying hypocrite who isn’t worth your time is actually worth a great deal of your time. There’s a word that would describe all of these behaviors but… ironically, I cannot think of it right now. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/19 "2003-03-28T08:09:14Z")
Too many people here watch _The Daily Show_ to let that one slip by, **Enderw24**. Please report to a processing facility immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/20 "2003-03-28T08:25:43Z")
Damn you and your infernal television watching ways! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640.md?page=2)