# Xenophon. Liar and Hypocrite **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 27, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640 "2003-03-27T23:31:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/21 "2003-03-28T12:41:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > I disagree. Hersh strongly implies that the issue of the yellow cake was discussed at the meeting. He does not explicitly state it though. That’s how I parse it. :smack: Why do I even _bother_ bolding stuff for you? You _still_ walk right past it. > [@](#): > > Since we disagree I guess that makes me disingenuous and dishonest in your eyes as well. I have to agree with **elucidator** on this one. But let me just focus on your debate persona for a moment. You are very passionate about your political views, even when they’re not supported by the evidence. The problem is, when confronted with facts or arguments that refute your position, you tend to turn up the emotional volume in response. > [@](#): > > I hope you’ll understand if I’m not as interested in the specific matter up for debate as I am in the issue as to whether Xenophon was justified in calling me dishonest several times as his opening salvo into the debate. I think **elucidator** spoke for me there as well. And you have to remember that it’s the original ‘specific issue up for debate’ back in the original thread that determines whether the things said in _that_ thread that caused you to start _this_ one, had any legitimacy. Looking at it, **xeno** seems to be on solid ground, and you’re making arguments that stand on air. And then calling a poster a liar and a jerk when he calls you on it. And maybe I’m not clear on the rules, but aren’t we supposed to avoid calling people names in GD? ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/22 "2003-03-28T21:03:47Z")
Just for the record, my spider plant is named Xenophon. I was wondering why you pitted my plant before I read the OP. Come to think of it, it’s been looking awfully smug lately–it must be using my computer to annoy Scylla while I’m at work… ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/23 "2003-03-28T21:28:51Z")
In that case, **slortar** tell your plant to be ready for a harsh potting. ---
**Author:** ![stofsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@stofsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stofsky)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/24 "2003-03-28T21:54:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Abe Babe \* > \*\*In that case, **slortar** tell your plant to be ready for a harsh potting. \*\* You nearly made me soil my pants with that one! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/25 "2003-03-28T23:45:57Z")
Rtf: That’s nice, but you’ve failed to answer my question. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/26 "2003-03-29T00:21:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*Yeah, I do remember that! Do _you_ remember that the first person to say “liar” was you? \*\* Yes, I do. > [@](#): > > Do you remember that first person to say “liar” is _always_ you? That is a lie, and an obvious one. > [@](#): > > Do you know how many times you have seized somebody by the lapels and screamed “liar” in his face till the viens stand out in your neck? Countless. Literally countless. Another lie from you. I’ve never done such a thing. > [@](#): > > You got a Jeckyl-Hyde thing going, buddy. You can be relatively entertaining, if _relentlessly_ self-revelatory. And you can be Porcine obtuse and trapezoidal. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? > [@](#): > > Get over yourself. Life is too short to live like that. \*\* Thanks. I’ll be sure and take your Tinkerbell advice to heart, and change my life. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/27 "2003-03-29T00:41:19Z")
Rtf: > [@](#): > > Why do I even bother bolding stuff for you? You still walk right past it. I see it RTF. I saw it the first time I read the article. That **is** not saying directly that the anonymous sources are stating that the yellow cake from Niger was discussed. It comes close to saying it, and it implies it strongly, but it doesn’t say it. Find me the line in the article where Hersh says anonymous sources told him that the yellow cake from Niger was discussed in the meeting. I don’t see that line. You have not shown it to me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/28 "2003-03-29T01:42:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > **That is a lie, and an obvious one.** Nope. Check it out. Not shitting you on this, pancho. > [@](#): > > \*\*Another lie from you. I’ve never done such a thing. \*\* You’re kidding, right? Honest? You don’t _know?_ Wow. Go to the archives. Check it out. You’re in for a shock. > [@](#): > > \*\*Thanks. I’ll be sure and take your Tinkerbell advice to heart, and change my life. \*\* Now you’re calling me a fairy? Not that there’s anything wrong with that… Believe it or not, the advice was offered with complete sincerity. Your loss, amigo. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/29 "2003-03-29T02:21:48Z")
Elucidator: > [@](#): > > Nope. Check it out. Not shitting you on this, pancho. Of course this is a lie. I’ll warranty it against any some of money you care to defend it with. The statement in question is as follows: > [@](#): > > Do you remember that first person to say “liar” is _always_ you? That is a bold statement. How much money would you like to defend it with? You will need to place the money into escrow, than I will do the same. After that I will show an example of a thread where I was not the first person to say “liar,” and collect the full sum. My minimum is $500. Do you accept? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/30 "2003-03-29T02:35:34Z")
Anybody ever tell you that you remind them of Yosimete Sam? Howzabout this? Threads over past year, everytime I’m the first to use the word “liar” in reference to another poster I give you $10, every time its you, you give me $5? There’s this bottle of single malt I’ve got my eye on… ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/31 "2003-03-29T02:42:19Z")
I’m not asking you to produce an alternate statement which you will defend. I’m asking you to defend the statement you had already made and then reaffirmed as being correct. Are you willing to stand behind your statement or not? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/32 "2003-03-29T02:51:33Z")
(yawn…) Goodnight, **Scylla**. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/33 "2003-03-29T02:54:39Z")
Besides, as you should know, the number of times someone makes the accusation is completely immaterial. It’s whether or not it’s justified that matters. Which brings us back to Xenophon. While general talk about me is very interesting and always to be encouraged the question at hand isn’t what good advice can I give Scylla, or how often does Scylla say a particular word. The question at hand is whether Xeno was justified in calling me dishonest in his opening post of the aforementioned thread. I maintain that he was being a shithead. Forgetting about me for a moment. How do you feel? Do you think it was proper and justified, as an opening overture? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/34 "2003-03-29T02:57:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*(yawn…) Goodnight, **Scylla**. \*\* I take it you concede the point. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/35 "2003-03-29T05:25:11Z")
**Xenophon** : Take no issue, **Scylla** bawls like a baby about some political opponent or the other about every six months. He had to demagogue somebody, you see, otherwise he’d have wasted all his SDMB credit garnered from the Blimp thread. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/36 "2003-03-29T15:23:27Z")
Heavens, I completely forgot about poor **Xenophon**! Here he is, brutally pitted by **Scylla** , only to have that echoed and underlined by **Scylla**. Then he is remorselessly piled on by **Scylla** , **Scylla** , and **Scylla**. He is fortunate not to be further pilloried and abused by angry crowds of **Scylla** , carrying torches and pitchforks, and subjected to mob violence. I shall make amends at once to poor **Xeno** , so pitilessly thrashed by **Scylla** and all his friends. [Reverend Lovejoy] I am here to comfort you. There, there. There, there.[/RL] ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/37 "2003-03-29T16:44:47Z")
You three kids should get a room. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/38 "2003-03-29T16:50:49Z")
It may have occurred to you **Scylla** that you were goaded into taking a tricky position by **elucidator**. Which was exactly what you said you wouldn’t do. > [@](#): > > _Scylla_ > The question at hand is whether Xeno was justified in calling me dishonest in his opening post of the aforementioned thread. Well it’s impolite. And I suppose you might not have read the article as well as you suppose. **Xeno** perhaps might have rhetorically allowed for your being confused. But you _do_ misrepresent the article: > [@](#): > > _Scylla_ > The implication being sold here, and I think “sold” is a fair word is that this clearly false and erroneous piece of information is the keystone of the intelligence that went into the decision to make war on Iraq. It’s just not so. I dunno why you posted it, and I don’t why you’re pawing the ground about it, but it’s not so. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/39 "2003-03-29T16:54:27Z")
Ewwwwwwww! ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/40 "2003-03-29T17:43:05Z")
What, man? I thought you were a free-thinker, **elucidator**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640.md?page=3)