# Xenophon. Liar and Hypocrite **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 27, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640 "2003-03-27T23:31:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/61 "2003-03-31T21:29:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiritus Mundi \* > \*\ ***scylla** > You jumped the gun on this one. **Xeno’s** comments did not merit this PITting. > > \*\* In a vaccum, yes. This is the straw that broke the camel’s back, though. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/62 "2003-03-31T22:19:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xenophon41 \* > \*\*While you’re thinking, consider that I can support each of the opinions you’ve objected to above with cites from your own words. \*\* I don’t think any of us are perfect, and I have freely admitted that I’ve engaged in purely rhetorical devices to further my viewpoint. Sometimes these have been frivolous or humorous, other times I think the circumstances required them, and still other times I’ve regretted some tactic I’ve used. So what? Attend to your own character failings. I assure you, you have them > [@](#): > > _…a narcissistic lying prick so enamored of your own worldview that your inability to accept other viewpoints borders on sociopathy…_ What if you \*were[i/] to call me that? It seems like you just did. > [@](#): > > this would be in response to your unflattering comments aimed at _me_, in a Pit thread which you started for the express purpose of impugning _my_ character. Hardly the playground in which I promised **Gaudere** I’d keep my gloves on. I don’t care why you broke your promise. That you did in the very same post in which you identified it really says all that needs to be said. I’ll repeat. Attend to your own moral fiber and integrity and leave me to mine. If you fail to do so I’m going to call you out on it and attack you’re character (in the appropriate forum,) **every single time** you do it. I would much rather debate the debate than debate personalities. You seem to have a fixation about not approving of my personality. Your judgements and editorialisms about my personality are lies. You don’t know me and you’re not qualified to judge me, and make assertions about who I am, and I consider it hypocritical because you’re not above the occasional bit of sophistry or rhetorical device yourself. So, I’ve thought a little bit further, and I’m sorry but I don’t think much of an apology couched before and after with the very same kind of attack you are apologizing before. But I’ll make it simple for you. I will make no attempts to play your game and defend myself from your accusations and moral editorializing. When you do it, I will simply attack you back. Each and every time. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/63 "2003-03-31T22:47:29Z")
RTF: > [@](#): > > bolded it. > > You seemingly ignored it. > > I asked why I bothered bolding it. > > You said you saw it the first time you read the article. > > Then we went back and forth about its meaning. > > And now you say you don’t see it? I figured there must have been something else because it doesn’t say what you say it say. It strongly implies it. > [@](#): > > Damn. I give up. Bye. Adios. Wring: > [@](#): > > but here, you’re loosing me. by your criteria, you seem to be painting me with that same ‘pretending’ otherwise brush. A mistake. I didn’t mean to do that, and I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/64 "2003-03-31T23:05:09Z")
> [@](#): > > So what? Attend to your own character failings. I assure you, you have them I sure do. One example would be coming back into this thread to slap you some more instead of letting it die quietly through lack of anyone’s agreement with the OP. This establishes that I’m not a great role model for humility or peacemaking. I try and do better, but I’ve never abided bullies or slanderers. And I know it’s not my place to point out your faults when I have so many of my own. But if I don’t shovel your bullshit out the door, somebody else’ll just have to do it. And I have a shovel. > [@](#): > > What if you _were_ to call me that? It seems like you just did. Why yes, it does _seem_ that way. By your rulebook, that makes it an honest mistake. However, I will admit that I meant to be insulting when I penned the remark. And the remark isn’t even accurate! (What fun!) It’s _not_ any inability on your part to accept other viewpoints which borders on sociopathy. > [@](#): > > I don’t care why you broke your promise. That you did in the very same post in which you identified it really says all that needs to be said. Oh, what twaddle! I promised to highlight my disagreements with your arguments and leave the assessment of your dubious honor to others, _in Great Debates_. When you start a Pit thread to examine _my_ honesty, don’t expect the subject of yours to be off limits. I’ll keep my promise. Which means I’ll continue to highlight inaccuracies in your representations when I see 'em, and let you blink your baby blues earnestly while you repeat them. And then I’ll point them out again, and again, until you have to choose between looking really stupid (which we all know you are not), looking really inattentive, or looking disingenuous. But that’ll be _your_ choice. > [@](#): > > You seem to have a fixation about not approving of my personality. It’s not a fixation. If your personality ever changes, I’m sure I’ll enjoy the improvement. > [@](#): > > Your judgements and editorialisms about my personality are lies. You don’t know me and you’re not qualified to judge me, and make assertions about who I am, and I consider it hypocritical because you’re not above the occasional bit of sophistry or rhetorical device yourself. Please give some examples of my sophistry. Really, I’m interested. I may be unaware of some stuff I’ve done that I shouldn’t have, it would be good to have it thrown in my face. I’ll certainly admit to having made some pretty damn weak arguments, and to having used “rhetorical devices” (hardly avoidable when engaging in rhetoric). Show me especially where I’ve mischaracterized someone else’s argument and failed to acknowledge it when inaccuracies were pointed out to me. Good luck. > [@](#): > > But I’ll make it simple for you. I will make no attempts to play your game and defend myself from your accusations and moral editorializing. When you do it, I will simply attack you back. Each and every time. I’ll note that the accusation which prompted **this** thread was the horrifyingly insulting assertion that in my opinion you were aware your portrayal of Hersh’s article was inaccurate. Hardly a fundamental leap on my part, when you’ve made such a point to widely portray your own cleverness on this message board. I figured the glaring mistakes in your deconstruction had to be intentional. But like I said, from now on I’ll stick to assuming such idiocies are genuine on your part. That should make you happy, which is of course a great concern of mine. Because I shudder at the thought of another attack as effective for you as this one has been. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/65 "2003-04-01T00:52:54Z")
> [@](#): > > I try and do better, but I’ve never abided bullies or slanderers. I was neither being bullying, nor slandering you nor anybody in that other thread, yet you attacked me personally for no other question than that you dislike me, and think little of my character. That makes you the bully. That makes you the slanderer. > [@](#): > > And I know it’s not my place to point out your faults when I have so many of my own. But if I don’t shovel your bullshit out the door, somebody else’ll just have to do it. And I have a shovel. Yep. You got me good. Everybody’s on your side. It ain’t a popularity contest though. You were wrong. We both know it, and I won’t make the mistake of being disapointed and angry when I don’t recieve good faith from you in debates in the future. I won’t think well enough of you to expect it, anymore. > [@](#): > > However, I will admit that I meant to be insulting when I penned the remark. Well fuck you, too. > [@](#): > > Please give some examples of my sophistry. Really, I’m interested. I’m not. I know what you are, and it’s not that interesting. > [@](#): > > Because I shudder at the thought of another attack as effective for you as this one has been. I do better next time, you lying hypocritical sack of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/66 "2003-04-01T01:12:51Z")
> [@](#): > > I apologize to the SDMB staff ?and to Scylla- for my judgemental tone. Here’s some advice: If you offer an apology don’t insult the person at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/67 "2003-04-01T03:44:42Z")
Ah, more shenanigans from **Scylla**. I love reading his stuff - especially when he gets to calling out the liars and flailing about madly in defense of some hopeless, helpless, flaccid line of argument. He reminds me greatly of the Fonz. Not in any cool way, such as jackets or motorcycles or the ability to fix the jukebox by pounding on the wall. No, it’s for the way that he cannot say, “I was wrong.” I imagine if he tried, it would be “I was wrooooo… I was rrr…rrr.rrr…” Just watch out though, or he’ll pull out some reference to a noble or heroic act of an ancestor of his, which by some odd transitive property gives him license to regard you with contempt. For example, **Xenophon** , my third uncle dove on a hand grenade in the Ardennes. His last words were “Never suffer a liar!” Therefore, I spit upon you. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/68 "2003-04-01T04:01:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hentor the Barbarian \* > \*\* He reminds me greatly of the Fonz. Not in any cool way, such as jackets or motorcycles or the ability to fix the jukebox by pounding on the wall. No, it’s for the way that he cannot say, “I was wrong.” I imagine if he tried, it would be “I was wrooooo… I was rrr…rrr.rrr…” \*\* …And yet it’s not three posts ago in this very thread that I acknowledged and apologized to **Wring** for a mistake I made. How do you wish to respond for that? \*\* [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/69 "2003-04-01T04:11:17Z")
Man, talk about a storm in a teacup. Was this really worth getting your knickers all twisted for? (Just wanted to use my mom’s old British expressions. Do carry on.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/70 "2003-04-01T04:22:01Z")
It _is_ kinda morbid, isn’t it? Kinda like bear-baiting, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/71 "2003-04-01T04:44:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*…And yet it’s not three posts ago in this very thread that I acknowledged and apologized to **Wring** for a mistake I made. > > How do you wish to respond for that? > \*\* \*\* [/QUOTE] 😉 I was wrooo… I’m sss… sssooo … I admit that I made a misss… a misss… I was wrong. You have shown a capability, at least on one occasion, to write an expression of error. However, you didn’t exactly say you were “wrong.” Liar! ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/72 "2003-04-01T04:56:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _part of Scylla’s first post in the GD thread_ > How about we try this one differently? I happen to feel that in this time of war, matters concerning the war should be debated from the standpoint of fighting ignorance rather than the I-take-one-side-you-take-the-other partisan politicking bullshit that seems to be our norm. > > Additionally, I don’t really have the time for a nine page train wreck. I didn’t think you had the _material_ for a nine page train wreck. I forgot how ductile a slight can be in your hands. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640/73 "2003-04-01T07:12:05Z")
—Ah, more shenanigans from Scylla.— Shenanigans!!! I call Shenanigans! Anyways, I think Shodan is one hell of a bloke and you should all lay off him! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xenophon-liar-and-hypocrite/164640.md?page=3)