# ­xkcd thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-strips\ **Created:** [May 28, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574 "2020-05-28T00:57:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 123
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2443 "2023-10-05T02:41:00Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > For context: And “Nobody was home” refers to Odysseus telling Polyphemus that his name is Οὖτις (Greek for “nobody”). ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2444 "2023-10-05T10:47:07Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > So maybe that? Still seems like a weak hook to immediately go to international fame. But maybe a few good media appearances would be enough. Especially in the progressive nerd arena, like NPR. Her translation is really good, but I think what drove the attention wasn’t just that she was the first woman to publish a translation but that (not coincidentally) her translation put the role of women into sharper contrast than traditional ones do. E.g. when male translators translate the word for the people in Odysseus’ suitor-infested household who do the cooking and cleaning and laundry, they go for words like housemaid, maidservant, handmaiden. Wilson uses the word “[slaves](https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/11/20/16651634/odyssey-emily-wilson-translation-first-woman-english)”. And because her translation is clear that what the suitors do to these women is rape, Odysseus’ decision to murder them all for the crime of being raped and _thus dishonouring him_ stands out very starkly as belonging to a very different culture than ours. > The slaves in older translations of the _Odyssey_ do not “babysit” — often, they’re not identified as slaves at all. Fagles, for instance, calls Eurymedusa a “chambermaid.” Fitzgerald calls her a “nurse.” “It sort of stuns me when I look at other translations,” Wilson said, “how much work seems to go into making slavery invisible.” > > Wilson, by contrast, uses the word “slave” for Eurymedusa and many other enslaved characters, even when the original uses a more specific term. The Homeric Greek dmoe, or “female-house-slave,” Wilson writes in her translator’s note, could be translated as “maid” or “domestic servant,” but those terms would imply that the woman was free. “The need to acknowledge the fact and the horror of slavery,” she writes, “and to mark the fact that the idealized society depicted in the poem is one where slavery is shockingly taken for granted, seems to me to outweigh the need to specify, in every instance, the type of slave.” The “controversy” around this, coupled with the fact that she uses Twitter to discuss her translation choices (across the whole poem, not just the ones above) led to rather more publicity than most translations might get. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2445 "2023-10-05T13:26:21Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > And “Nobody was home” refers to Odysseus telling Polyphemus that his name is Οὖτις (Greek for “nobody”). Wow, no spoiler tags? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2446 "2023-10-05T19:36:36Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > The “controversy” around this, coupled with the fact that she uses Twitter to discuss her translation choices (across the whole poem, not just the ones above) led to rather more publicity than most translations might get. Thanks–that makes sense. And also explains why she might be making the rounds in certain media circles. It is an interesting question about clarity versus strict accuracy in a translation. Perhaps “housemaid” is more literal, but leaves out important context. So it’s good to see people pushing in new directions here (and I can also imagine some backlash). I’d mildly disagree that this comes across as very different than our culture, though. Modern culture, yes. But the bible lays out punishments for rape victims, and plenty of people are familiar with the bible. Maybe honor plays less of a part, but it’s not a totally alien concept. Women are property in both cases. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2447 "2023-10-05T22:07:50Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Perhaps “housemaid” is more literal, but leaves out important context Per the quote above, the word she’s translating literally does mean ‘female house slave’. ‘Housemaid’ etc are euphemisms. As for how far removed from honour cultures, I should have said that when other translations present these women as having agency, then the story is framed as ‘faithless schemers betray Penelope (Odysseus) by siding with he suitors’, and thus Odysseus execution of them fits more convincingly into the “hero righteously cleaning house” narrative. But it’s a lot harder to nod along with when Wilson presents it as the narcissistic murder of rape victims. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2448 "2023-10-05T22:19:38Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > ‘Housemaid’ etc are euphemisms. But they carry other information. The original word means female-house-servant-property. “Housemaid” means female-house-servant, while “slave” means servant-property. So, arguably, “housemaid” covers more ground, but given how important the “property” part is, plus that the other properties are likely known by the surrounding context, “slave” seems like a better choice. But strictly speaking, “housemaid” might be a tad closer if we’re just going for strict literal accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2449 "2023-10-06T13:05:04Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > But strictly speaking, “housemaid” might be a tad closer if we’re just going for strict literal accuracy. This assumes Wilson’s translation ignores gender, which I suspect it doesn’t. If she covers gender elsewhere, then the ‘slave’ terminology choice gives readers both Female and Servant but trades out location of servitude (House) for inclusion of the fact that the person was enslaved rather than free, which I think is an upgrade to understanding the dynamics of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2450 "2023-10-06T14:44:44Z")
Annoyingly, I have lent out my copy or I’d quote the relevant passages but it was pretty clear to me that these slaves were women who were doing domestic work. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2451 "2023-10-07T04:04:47Z")
> **[Dubious Islands](https://xkcd.com/2838/)** > > Running for office in Minnesota on the single-issue platform 'dig a permanent channel through the Traverse Gap because it will make this map more satisfying.' ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2452 "2023-10-07T11:14:19Z")
I like how he properly made northern Door County an island – the Sturgeon bay ship canal makes it so. There was a canal between the Wisconsin and Fox Rivers making SE Wisconsin an island but has been filled in. > **[Portage Canal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portage_Canal)** > > The Portage Canal was built to connect the Fox River and Wisconsin River at Portage, Wisconsin along the Fox-Wisconsin Waterway. For a time, it completed a route from the north Atlantic Ocean, through the St. Lawrence Seaway and down the Mississippi River to the Gulf of Mexico, and back to the Atlantic. > Numerous attempts were made to build the thin Wisconsin-Fox connection through the marshy land, beginning in 1837 with the formation of the Portage Canal Company. Digging and hauling by hand thr... Brian ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2453 "2023-10-07T13:29:42Z")
The Ohio-Erie Canal also once would have been another island-break. I’m not sure what the connection is between the Madison and Yellowstone rivers, though (but the connection between one of those and the Snake is probably Lake Ida, mentioned just the other day in the Interesting Facts thread). Here’s a question: Can a waterfall truly be said to separate two islands? What if there’s a dry path behind or below the waterfall? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2454 "2023-10-07T17:34:51Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > There was a canal between the Wisconsin and Fox Rivers making SE Wisconsin an island but has been filled in. The Mrs. and I have hiked along the old Portage Canal trail east of Portage in years past. A lovely area and an interesting canal remnant. Sadly it’s thoroughly blocked now at the site where it used to meet the Wisconsin River. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2455 "2023-10-07T23:42:38Z")
I grew up somewhat close to the Traverse gap on the western border of Minnesota. It’s a real thing, separating Big Stone Lake, which is the headwater of the Minnesota River, from Lake Traverse, which is the start of the Red River of the North (a _Jeopardy!_ clue this week, even). It forms a continental divide, but it isn’t very scenic since the two miles dividing the two lakes is swampy reeds. Perhaps it’ll be famous now, since it’s the path you need to take to walk from the east coast of North America to the west coast without crossing any water. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2456 "2023-10-10T00:13:42Z")
> **[Language Acquisition](https://xkcd.com/2839/)** > > My first words were 'These were my first words; what were yours?' ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2457 "2023-10-11T21:42:29Z")
> **[Earth Layers](https://xkcd.com/2840/)** > > The Earth's magnetic field is primarily generated by currents in the liquid outer core, though some geophysicists argue that an unexplained mismatch with models suggests that the Kinder toy contains a magnet. Hmm… no network interface layer? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2458 "2023-10-12T01:11:19Z")
I was looking for a small thermal exhaust port. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2459 "2023-10-12T17:06:28Z")
I kinda wanted the middle to be the center of a Tootsie Roll Pop. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2460 "2023-10-13T22:21:01Z")
If it were, how many licks would it take to reach the center? ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2461 "2023-10-13T22:26:44Z")
I expected “Mickey Mantle “ after “Upper Mantle” and “Deep Mantle.” Oh well! ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2462 "2023-10-14T04:23:08Z")
> **[Sign Combo](https://xkcd.com/2841/)** > > Speed Limit: 45 MPH / Minimum: 65 MPH [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574.md?page=122) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574.md?page=124)