# ­xkcd thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-strips\ **Created:** [May 28, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574 "2020-05-28T00:57:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 129
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2563 "2023-12-04T21:59:40Z")
> **[Space Typography](https://xkcd.com/2863/)** > > And over heeee\[...\]eeeere (i)s Saturn. I assume the parens around the i for Saturn are the rings. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2564 "2023-12-04T23:18:38Z")
Saturn is about 90% again as far from the Sun as is Jupiter. It took 13 syllables to get to jupiter’s “i”. So maybe 10 or 12 more syllables to get to Saturn’s = 4 to 8 words. Measured in letters which is a more natural measure for this purpose, Jupiter’s “i” is character 41, so we need ~37 more. Less the last 5 of “typographically” plus a space, so ~31 more word+space characters to the next “i”. Kinda hard to come up with that lengthy a continuation of that sentence with no unwanted "i"s. Good bet Randal tried. Sadly, my own intellect sucks at that sort of letter-based wordplay or I’d beat my head on that rock for an hour or so for everyone’s entertainment. Might be a fun challenge for somebody who has some skill with ChatGPT. I sure don’t. ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2565 "2023-12-04T23:23:10Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Saturn is about 90% again as far from the Sun as is Jupiter. Wow. Your Jeppesen charts are thorough. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2566 "2023-12-04T23:27:30Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Kinda hard to come up with that lengthy a continuation of that sentence with no unwanted "i"s. Good bet Randal tried. [Gadsby](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsby_(novel)) was a whole novel written without the letter E (well, almost); I think Randall can do it without I for a few paragraphs. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2567 "2023-12-04T23:44:14Z")
As I was writing my post I was thinking of an article I’d read a few years ago (wiki?) about various sorts of restricted spelling as a general exercise. One example of which was doing English prose without using “e”. I didn’t bother researching to cite the article. I did not know of that novel. Thanks. Looks like an interesting experience to read. Certainly thought provoking. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2568 "2023-12-04T23:44:39Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Might be a fun challenge for somebody who has some skill with ChatGPT. ChatGPT 3.5 was totally hopeless. I tried Bing, and it also totally failed on the first shot. When I asked it to try again, it gave me this (and some more along the same lines): > There are eght planets n the solar system: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. They are grouped nto two types: terrestrial planets and gas gants. It left in about half the Is, and the rest it just removed from the words 🤦‍♂️ . ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2569 "2023-12-04T23:45:30Z")
Please do not ask it to “serve man”. It seems to have bad comprehension of intent. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2570 "2023-12-04T23:58:17Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Saturn is about 90% again as far from the Sun as is Jupiter. It took 13 syllables to get to jupiter’s “i”. So maybe 10 or 12 more syllables to get to Saturn’s = 4 to 8 words. > > Measured in letters which is a more natural measure for this purpose, Jupiter’s “i” is character 41, so we need ~37 more. Less the last 5 of “typographically” plus a space, so ~31 more word+space characters to the next “i”. According to the [xkcd Explained wiki](https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2863:_Space_Typography), the tooltip already solves this for Saturn: > The title text appends the sentence with a section for identifying Saturn. It contains an ellipsis in brackets, which normally signifies that an indeterminate number of 'e’s has been omitted from the sentence, seemingly to represent Saturn’s large orbital radius as the next ‘i’ in “is”. The trick is that actually appending the sentence literally, brackets and all, after the original sentence (so that we get \textrm{Optimistic aliens measure space typographically. And over heeee[...]eeeere (i)s Saturn.}) actually puts the dot on the last ‘i’ at Saturn’s orbit. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2571 "2023-12-05T00:04:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > the tooltip already solves this for Saturn The tooltip doesn’t show the number of Es in “heeee[…]eeeere”. Though ExplainXKCD says it’s about 59. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2572 "2023-12-05T00:26:14Z")
'Zactly. The tooltip cheats with the undefined number of "e"s on top of the already non-standard number of "e"s. All we can say for sure is it’s at least 10. Even “and over he[…]ere (i)s Saturn” would have been better. I do get the humor in doing it the way he did. And it’s getting us, and fellow nerds worldwide, speculating on how many "e"s there are / should be. ETA: Bravo to @abcdefghij for the post just below mine. Very clever, Good Sir! ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2573 "2023-12-05T00:27:45Z")
But then shouldn’t the ellipsis be between Jupiter and Mars? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2574 "2023-12-05T01:30:10Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > 'Zactly. The tooltip cheats with the undefined number of "e"s on top of the already non-standard number of "e"s. All we can say for sure is it’s at least 10. You misread the quote. There aren’t any missing e’s. The tooltip **as written** puts Saturn in the right place. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2575 "2023-12-05T01:48:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The tooltip **as written** puts Saturn in the right place. Right. You just have to imagine the tooltip is written in the specified font, not in the font that shows here. This was obvious to me when I posted the strip here, hence my comment about the otherwise unnecessary parens being the rings of Saturn. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2576 "2023-12-05T02:10:26Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > 'Zactly. The tooltip cheats with the undefined number of "e"s on top of the already non-standard number of "e"s. All we can say for sure is it’s at least 10. > > You misread the quote. There aren’t any missing e’s. The tooltip **as written** puts Saturn in the right place. Maybe. I did understand the words in your cite to ExplainXKCD. Which asserts that what looks like an ellipsis is really just the five characters “[”, “.”, “.”, “.”, “]” in sequence. OK, I can accept that. And if so it would be a clever bit of typographical / computer geek “word”-play typical of Munroe. But then where does this come from?: > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > the tooltip already solves this for Saturn > > The tooltip doesn’t show the number of Es in “heeee[…]eeeere”. Though ExplainXKCD says it’s about 59. Per that statement ExplainXKCD says there are (or needs to be) 59 "e"s. Not the 10 we see. Which says the thing that looks like an ellipsis actually _is_ an ellipsis standing in for 49 invisible "e"s. Which was the complaint I made. I now can’t tell you which of these two things is correct. I can just tell you they are different. So at most one is correct. I initially took @Dr.Strangelove 's interpretation as fact. Now I only know that I don’t know. And that I haven’t bothered to independently try typing it out and measuring it myself. What is your proposed reconciliation of this discrepancy? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2577 "2023-12-05T02:15:27Z")
I think it’s this: > about 59 'e’s for Saturn, **starting from the Sun** So **BigT** is right, though it was a bit weird for the site to mention the other number since none of the other gaps start from the sun. I suppose there is some ambiguity in whether the tooltip should restart the measurement or if it start after the original sentence. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2578 "2023-12-05T02:17:07Z")
Ah. That makes logical sense even if ExplainXKCD did a shit job of explaining their explanation. Those damn people who write on message boards all day sure can be a PITA when you try to depend on them for the actual factual facts! 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2579 "2023-12-05T07:26:22Z")
[This](https://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html) is a very good website that illustrates the problem. I’ve spent a lot of time watching it. (Don’t miss the ‘Speed of Light’ option bottom right). ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2580 "2023-12-05T13:58:32Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I assume the parens around the i for Saturn are the rings. It took me far to long to realize that “Heeee…eere (i)s Saturn” is a play on “Heeeeere’s Johnny!” ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2581 "2023-12-07T15:49:26Z")
> **[Compact Graphs](https://xkcd.com/2864/)** > > People may complain about readability, but even with jpeg compression, extracting the data points is usually computationally feasible if there aren't too many of them. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2582 "2023-12-09T01:12:41Z")
> **[the Wrong Stuff](https://xkcd.com/2865/)** > > The phantom found Edward Everett Hale a century too early; by the time we invented satellites, the specifics of his 'brick moon' proposal were dismissed as science fiction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574.md?page=128) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574.md?page=130)