# ­xkcd thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-strips\ **Created:** [May 28, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574 "2020-05-28T00:57:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 142
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2823 "2024-03-16T15:48:24Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That is an awful lot of explanation needed. Yet despite the painfully long explanation, I don’t think it mentions what I would assume to be a key dynamic being referenced. The retro burn to de-orbit a spacecraft has to be very precise; if it’s too long the craft will plunge into the atmosphere and risk burning up; if too short the craft might skip off the top of the atmosphere and be flung into an uncontrolled eccentric orbit. I presume it’s the latter scenario that the comic is referencing. In reality the craft wouldn’t get far from earth, but that’s a detail the comic overlooks. I imagine the reason that the “skip” scenario was of such concern during the manned space program was that there wouldn’t be enough fuel to make a second de-orbit attempt. Geez, that turned out to be long-winded, too! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2824 "2024-03-16T15:52:02Z")
> [@Folly](#): > > I grew up in Texas and have lived half my life in Chicago and pronounce it more like > un-yin “Un - yun” here. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2825 "2024-03-16T16:32:54Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Yet despite the painfully long explanation, I don’t think it mentions what I would assume to be a key dynamic being referenced. The retro burn to de-orbit a spacecraft has to be very precise; if it’s too long the craft will plunge into the atmosphere and risk burning up; if too short the craft might skip off the top of the atmosphere and be flung into an uncontrolled eccentric orbit. > > I presume it’s the latter scenario that the comic is referencing. In reality the craft wouldn’t get far from earth, but that’s a detail the comic overlooks. I imagine the reason that the “skip” scenario was of such concern during the manned space program was that there wouldn’t be enough fuel to make a second de-orbit attempt. Unless one truly messed up the re-entry burn, as in firing the burn 180° wrong so they did an Oberth maneuver instead of braking. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2826 "2024-03-16T17:04:39Z")
In the teaching of reading, a schwa is generally thought of as a vowel sound in an _unstressed_ syllable that does not make a discernible “other” vowel sound. The “a” in “about,” for example, which does not make the vowel sound in “cat” or “make,” or to use an example from the comic, the second vowel sound in “onion.” (Note that not all unstressed vowels are schwas: the second vowel in “pillow” is not a schwa.) What the comic does here is to combine, or maybe conflate, the short /u/ sound with the schwa. Short /u/ is the vowel sound in bus, chump, and oh yes, stuck, truck, Doug, and ton (even though the last two are not spelled with a u to symbolize the sound). This makes some sense: if I had to correlate the schwa of “around” with an existing short vowel sound, I’d choose short /u/, and I think most people would not distinguish the /u/ in bug from the first sound of about. But–in the phonics of reading instruction anyway–there is a difference in concept if not always in sound between the schwa and the short /u/, which typically appears in a _stressed_ syllable. Most of the examples in the comic are short /u/ words, not schwas. You’re right that many schwas can be represented by other letters and they’d still be pronounced the same way. I taught primary grades for many years, and it was always fun to see what kids did when they were spelling words with schwas on their own. Take a word like “wagon,” which would come out “wagun,” or “wagin,” or “wagen,” in addition to “wagon” if we were lucky and conceivably “wagan.” Your pencil example is another good one. Disclaimers: This is how reading teachers are trained to think about schwas. Phonologists and phoneticians may have a different way of approaching them. Also, I haven’t taught reading in about 25 years, though I have written reading curriculum materials. It’s conceivable that things may be changing. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2827 "2024-03-16T18:04:34Z")
We’re being inundated by "u"s and finally an “Onion” which could be pronounced “un-yun”. My humble take on English linguistication. Better explained by the professionals above. ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2828 "2024-03-16T18:41:05Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > first vowel may be more of a caret Add some celery to that caret in the first syllable of onion and you can make mirepoix ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2829 "2024-03-16T20:12:03Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I imagine the reason that the “skip” scenario was of such concern during the manned space program was that there wouldn’t be enough fuel to make a second de-orbit attempt. At that point in re-entry, the Apollo crafts would have shed their service module, meaning there wouldn’t be _any_ fuel for a second attempt. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2024, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2830 "2024-03-17T03:28:46Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > …two schwas. I’m still bummed that my first name is pronounced with a schwa (middle name has one, too), but it’s not practical to spell it that way. At my “Devious Dork”-iest, I’ve thought of legally changing it. But even if I could, it’d be unfair to make other people try to figure out how to type it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2024, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2831 "2024-03-17T07:36:31Z")
There is a big push these days to say that /ʌ/ and /ə/ are in fact the same phoneme in General American English. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wt66Je3o0Qg/maxresdefault.jpg ""Schwa is never stressed" – FALSE") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt66Je3o0Qg) ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2024, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2832 "2024-03-17T14:57:02Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > ake a word like “wagon,” which would come out “wagun,” or “wagin,” or “wagen,” in addition to “wagon” if we were lucky and conceivably “wagan.” Question is-would any of these rhyme with “Sagan”? I just found the XKCD Sucks site, written by a kindred spirit, and will thus spend some time there, and not on the official site, or this thread, anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2833 "2024-03-17T20:51:49Z")
Everyone needs a hobby! ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2834 "2024-03-19T16:30:56Z")
> **[Moon Armor Index](https://xkcd.com/2908/)** > > Astronomers are a little unsure of the applicability of this index, but NASA's Planetary Protection Officer is all in favor. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2835 "2024-03-19T21:04:20Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Question is-would any of these rhyme with “Sagan”? For some reason, Jerry Garcia always pronounced “wagon” (while singing anyway) with the first syllable sounding like “way”. For example, _[Stella Blue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GikGnKuehms&t=26s)_ and _[Eyes of the World](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGjsYLlTxQ4&t=116s)_. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2836 "2024-03-19T21:31:15Z")
Interesting that Earth and Pluto end up just about equal. And Venus, of course, eschews armor to instead go about naked. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2837 "2024-03-19T21:56:39Z")
One minor issue is that simply getting the Moon down to the surface would liquefy it. Seems to defeat much of the purpose of having Moon armor in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2838 "2024-03-19T22:36:20Z")
Eventually it will solidify. We should probably get started on this so it’s solid when we need it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2839 "2024-03-19T22:41:20Z")
Yeah, it’ll probably take 100 million years or so, so the sooner we start the better. We probably only have 500M years before the sun gets so bright that it evaporates the oceans. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2840 "2024-03-19T22:43:03Z")
Can’t we just bring the Moon down in little pieces and reassemble it here? We already have a start with moon rocks brought back by astronauts. Just do more of that. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2841 "2024-03-19T22:54:18Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I just found the XKCD Sucks site You know you’ve made it when someone starts a site named "your site’ sucks. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/2842 "2024-03-20T18:22:35Z")
> **[Moon Landing Mission Profiles](https://xkcd.com/2909/)** > > If you pick a low enough orbit, it gives you a lot of freedom to use a lightweight launch vehicle such as a stepladder. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574.md?page=141) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574.md?page=143)