# ­xkcd thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-strips\ **Created:** [May 28, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574 "2020-05-28T00:57:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 159
**Author:** ![Topologist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/topologist/32/3208_2.png) [@Topologist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Topologist)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3163 "2024-06-18T17:32:18Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > I’m disappointed Randal didn’t lay it out on a rectangular coordinate system with mind on one axis and body on the other.  I think that would be more a Cartesian coordinate system. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3164 "2024-06-19T16:26:01Z")
Cartesian? This guy? [![](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/5d025635e9e6f00001d604a6/1561427252699-2EMQCKUQ1J49MYTDGQ47/http-%253A%253Awww.comedycentral.com.au%253Asouth-park%253Avideos%253Athe-worst-of-eric-cartman-casa-bonita-clips.jpg?content-type=image%2Fjpeg) ](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/5d025635e9e6f00001d604a6/1561427252699-2EMQCKUQ1J49MYTDGQ47/http-%253A%253Awww.comedycentral.com.au%253Asouth-park%253Avideos%253Athe-worst-of-eric-cartman-casa-bonita-clips.jpg?content-type=image%2Fjpeg) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3165 "2024-06-19T19:52:48Z")
> **[Electric vs Gas](https://xkcd.com/2948/)** > > An idling gas engine may be annoyingly loud, but that's the price you pay for having WAY less torque available at a standstill. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3166 "2024-06-19T20:37:51Z")
Based on my conversations with some motorheads, it’s the _sound_ of the running engine that makes gasoline engines superior. I feel too much pity to tell them electric cars could play whatever sounds we want, but choose not to. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3167 "2024-06-19T21:49:10Z")
**Kaylasmom** ’s opinion, as a blind pedestrian, was that they should have to, whether you want to or whether you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3168 "2024-06-19T21:56:38Z")
There’s a difference between a sound designed to make something noticeable, and a sound that’s an unintended byproduct of poor engineering. Giving electric cars a mandatory beeper or something might not be a bad idea, but there’s no reason for them to sound like a poorly-tuned Harley. All that said, this comic is overlooking the elephant in gas’s corner: You can store a lot more energy under pretty much any set of constraints (mass, volume, volume of a particular shape, whatever) in gasoline than you can in batteries. At least, so long as you live on a world whose atmosphere is a quarter rocket fuel. Which it happens we do. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3169 "2024-06-19T22:03:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > At least, so long as you live on a world whose atmosphere is a quarter rocket fuel. Alternate mouse-over text: _No one is going to be driving gasoline engines on Mars._ ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3170 "2024-06-19T22:14:35Z")
FWIW I don’t think electric cars are a mature enough technology to replace internal combustion engines yet. We’re still in the early adopter phase. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3171 "2024-06-19T22:30:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > At least, so long as you live on a world whose atmosphere is a quarter rocket fuel. Which it happens we do. That’s a really cool way to say that. Thank you. Eye opening. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3172 "2024-06-19T22:45:15Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > FWIW I don’t think electric cars are a mature enough technology to replace internal combustion engines yet. Entirely? No, not yet. But we can still replace a heck of a lot of them. A lot of Americans live in two (or more) car households right now, and in a lot of those, at least one of the drivers has a commute short enough for an electric vehicle. So replace one of the cars in each of those households with an electric. And then replace most of the other cars with plug-in hybrids, because even of the commutes that are longer than electric range, most aren’t much longer. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3173 "2024-06-19T23:03:26Z")
And the grid upgrades necessary to support this plan are what percent complete? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3174 "2024-06-19T23:06:14Z")
100%. Most of the added demand would be overnight, when the grid is underutilized anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3175 "2024-06-19T23:12:07Z")
“C combines the power and performance of assembly language with the flexibility and ease-of-use of assembly language” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3176 "2024-06-19T23:16:18Z")
And more non-obvious ways to trip yourself up. Gee thanks, Dennis! ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3177 "2024-06-19T23:37:59Z")
“Amtrak combines the convenience and affordability of air travel with the speed and comfort of bus travel.” ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3178 "2024-06-20T00:27:20Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > And the grid upgrades necessary to support this plan are what percent complete? Data centers (AI) are a bigger impact especially due to localization. A single data center can suck up enough power to run 400,000 homes. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3179 "2024-06-20T01:21:14Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Data centers (AI) are a bigger impact Ditto for crypto-miners. Those should be outlawed. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3180 "2024-06-20T01:29:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > 100%. Most of the added demand would be overnight, when the grid is underutilized anyway. Really? [USA Facts](https://usafacts-org.webpkgcache.com/doc/-/s/usafacts.org/articles/how-much-electricity-would-it-take-to-power-all-cars-if-they-were-electric/) > **[Electric Cars Are Coming, and Fast. Is the Nation’s Grid Up to It? (Published...](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/29/climate/gm-electric-cars-power-grid.html)** > > GM’s decision this week to phase out gasoline vehicles is the latest in a major shift that will mean drastic new demands on electric utilities. Here are four things that will need to happen. Both of those links mention that we would need 25-35% more electrical generation capacity than we have today. The grid would also have to be upgraded to carry the extra juice. That’s not cheap and, somehow, I don’t think a surcharge on electric cars would be politically popular amongst the green energy crowd. They’re already fighting road-use surcharges since e-cars don’t pay the fuel taxes that pays for most roads (at least here in Florida). I believe we need to cut our reliance on fossil fuels to as close to zero as we can get, but we need to understand that most green energy is heavily subsidized currently and will get MUCH more expensive if it becomes the majority or sole usage. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3181 "2024-06-20T01:46:17Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > most green energy is heavily subsidized currently It’s not subsidized _nearly_ as much as fossil fuels. Arguably, the best thing for renewables at this point would be to eliminate _all_ energy subsidies (though that’s not at all likely to happen). The grid problems are really overrated for the reason **Chronos** mentioned–almost all charging will be at night. The grid is sized for daytime peaks (which are especially high in places with heavy AC use), so at night there is spare capacity. As for the timeshifting of renewables (in particular, shifting peak solar use to later in the evening), California has built roughly 10 GW of battery storage just since that article was written. And at times, batteries have provided the majority of California’s power. We’re quickly reaching a point where the majority of electricity production is solar backed by batteries. Some grid expansion is necessary, but not a lot, since the batteries are put near the production sites, and they smooth out the power use over time. And they’re fairly cheap and very easy to install. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/3182 "2024-06-20T02:28:46Z")
Eventually there will be a major power grid outage (s\*\*\* happens), and then we will see what happens when in addition to all the other disruptions now nobody can recharge their cars. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574.md?page=158) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574.md?page=160)