# ­xkcd thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-strips\ **Created:** [May 28, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574 "2020-05-28T00:57:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 322
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6423 "2026-10-03T23:33:48Z")
> **[Accelerator Energies](https://xkcd.com/3306/)** [![](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/accelerator_energies.png) ](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/accelerator_energies.png) “Fans at Daytona always get extra excited when officials decide to introduce some antimatter cars circling the track in the opposite direction.” ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6424 "2026-10-04T04:20:10Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > [xkcd: Accelerator Energies](https://xkcd.com/3306) > [https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/accelerator\_energies.png](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/accelerator_energies.png) > > “Fans at Daytona always get extra excited when officials decide to introduce some antimatter cars circling the track in the opposite direction.” The amount of energy released by a 1,000 kg car colliding with a similar vehicle made of antimatter is 1.8 x 1020 J, which is equivalent to about 43 gigatons (or 43,000 MT) of TNT—which is also about the same energy that an asteroid 1 km in diameter striking the Earth at 20 km/s would release. Those fans at Daytona better really enjoy their last few moments of excitement. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6425 "2026-10-04T11:45:51Z")
Which reminds me of the very first What-if: **[Relativistic Baseball](https://what-if.xkcd.com/1/)**. Which even today, 160 What-if’s later, remains one of my faves. ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6426 "2026-10-04T13:16:56Z")
It also reminds me of [No-Rules Nascar](https://what-if.xkcd.com/116/), in which he also mentioned Daytona and particle accelerators. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6427 "2026-10-04T13:42:55Z")
Interestingly (to me, anyway 😉), the _kinetic_ energy of the vehicles is negligible in the extreme (only 8.1 MJ total assuming they are each traveling at 200 mph). That’s just one part in _22 trillion_ compared to the energy released in the matter-antimatter annihilation. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6428 "2026-10-04T13:47:21Z")
Kinetic \<\< Chemical \<\<\< Atomic \<\<\<\< Nuclear \<\<\<\<\< Antimatter. Whole lotta less-than’s in there. 😁 I’m not sure I want to be on the same planet as the folks who first succeed at discovering the unknown next term in my formula. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6429 "2026-10-04T13:56:08Z")
A distinction has to be made between luminosity (total number of particles being collided) and collision electron-voltage (roughly, the speed at which they’re colliding). The NASCAR collider has great luminosity but extremely poor electron-voltage. Also, I wish that historical graph was properly calibrated to show the actual line/curve of progress. Is collision energy a straight line function of track length, or has there been any technological improvement? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6430 "2026-10-04T14:07:12Z")
Note that’s a **[Log–log plot - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log%E2%80%93log_plot)**. Which means the underlying best-fit straight line of that dot plot is actually an exponential function. But it would be interesting to plot something like energy / track length over time. Something I’d rather not plot is expense over time. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6431 "2026-10-04T16:09:32Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Kinetic \<\< Chemical \<\<\< Atomic \<\<\<\< Nuclear \<\<\<\<\< Antimatter. How are you defining “Atomic” that’s distinct from both “Chemical” and “Nuclear”? > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Note that’s a **[Log–log plot - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log%E2%80%93log_plot)**. Which means the underlying best-fit straight line of that dot plot is actually an exponential function. Power law, not exponential. y = x^p, not y=b^x. It makes a big difference: Any exponential growth function will eventually surpass any power law function. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6432 "2026-10-04T16:19:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > How are you defining “Atomic” that’s distinct from both “Chemical” and “Nuclear”? Good point. I was taking a bit of liberty inspired by the terminology of nuclear weapons. You could rewrite what I meant as > Chemical \<\<\< Fission \<\<\<\< Fusion Now whether that’s good physics is a different question I defer to you about. But that’s what I meant. 🙂 > [@Chronos](#): > > Power law, not exponential. y = x^p, not y=b^x. Good pimp again. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6433 "2026-10-04T19:35:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > Note that’s a **[Log–log plot - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log%E2%80%93log_plot)**. Which means the underlying best-fit straight line of that dot plot is actually an exponential function. > > Power law, not exponential. y = x^p, not y=b^x. It makes a big difference: Any exponential growth function will eventually surpass any power law function. As a professor told us “Getting a straight line on a log-log plot is not interesting. Not getting a straight line is interesting.” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6434 "2026-10-04T19:44:10Z")
Nice catchy saying. OTOH, you chose to plot your data on a log-log plot for a reason. There’s lots of other chart types you could have chosen for different reasons. In this case Randall picked log-log for us. So what does that tell us about @Lumpy’s good question that I was stabbing (ineffectually?) around the edges of: > [@Lumpy](#): > > Also, I wish that historical graph was properly calibrated to show the actual line/curve of progress. Is collision energy a straight line function of track length, or has there been any technological improvement? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6435 "2026-10-04T19:53:11Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Also, I wish that historical graph was properly calibrated to show the actual line/curve of progress. Is collision energy a straight line function of track length, or has there been any technological improvement? Yeah, I’d like to see a chart of collision energy per particle as a function of track length. I think you’d see the effect of improvements in magnetic field densty that can be achieved ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6436 "2026-10-05T13:16:22Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Interestingly (to me, anyway 😉), the _kinetic_ energy of the vehicles is negligible in the extreme (only 8.1 MJ total assuming they are each traveling at 200 mph). 8.1 MJ is about 5e25 eV, right about where the dot is in the graph. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6437 "2026-10-05T15:58:11Z")
The latest colliders are proton-proton rather than proton-antiproton; apparently they now operate at energies where the contribution from annihilation is minor, and foregoing antiproton production and storage spares a lot of cost and complexity. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6438 "2026-10-05T16:19:51Z")
If the contribution from matter-antimatter annihilation is minor, then that evidently flips the kinetic energy to antimatter sequence that @LSLGuy [posted above](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6428) on its head—for particle accelerators anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6439 "2026-10-05T21:31:45Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > A distinction has to be made between luminosity (total number of particles being collided) and collision electron-voltage (roughly, the speed at which they’re colliding). The NASCAR collider has great luminosity but extremely poor electron-voltage. Nah, lousy luminosity. The Daytona accelerator has only a few dozen particles. They’re compound particles, but then, so are the ones in the LHC. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6440 "2026-10-05T23:14:35Z")
> [@abcdefghij](#): > > As a professor told us “Getting a straight line on a log-log plot is not interesting. Not getting a straight line is interesting.” Isaac Asimov commented that most major scientific discoveries don’t start with, Eureka!" but rather, “Hmmm. That’s odd.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2026, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6441 "2026-10-06T00:03:31Z")
Well, getting two or even three straight lines (connected by brief curved regions) on a log-log plot isn’t all that rare, either. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2026, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574/6442 "2026-10-06T00:58:11Z")
> **[Spectrum Allocation](https://xkcd.com/3307/)** [![](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/spectrum_allocation.png) ](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/spectrum_allocation.png) “Rumor has it that they’re finally auctioning off the zeppelin navigation bands, but everyone is worried that the scary boat captains will express interest.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574.md?page=321) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xkcd-thread/854574.md?page=323)