# xtisme, come on down, you muppet! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 7, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300 "2010-06-07T17:06:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/281 "2010-06-08T18:51:29Z")
The old reverse psychology trick. Damn, you lot are predictable. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/282 "2010-06-08T18:54:59Z")
> [@JimNightshade](#): > > I > If you really really need this to cement your opinions I will dig it up for you - though why I should spend that amount of time for something like this is beyond me. Frankly I would prefer not to go through the whole “Cite?” / "AntiCite? thing. > > I think it would be much more productive if we just started a thread in GD or something, wouldn’t you agree? I can start one, but I am not sure what part you want to discuss. Let me know if you would like a serious discussion about this (and let us try to ignore the flamers) and I would be happy to oblige. I am not a prolific poster though, so please do not get impatient if I don’t respond immediately (or even within a day). You are welcome to blame my family for this, I would appreciate it if you could do so in a decent manner. Why would you even want to go down that route if you know the man is a charlatan? If you have evidence that he has said he is only in the ufo game for the cash, I want to see it, as this would cause me to totally revise my opinion of his book. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/283 "2010-06-08T19:06:27Z")
Do you think alien men have foreskins, and, if so, should they be circumcised? Alien Smegma! ---
**Author:** ![JimNightshade](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jimnightshade/32/3354_2.png) [@JimNightshade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimNightshade)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/284 "2010-06-08T19:11:57Z")
Fair enough. I must admit that I am a bit surprised in your statement that you are open to change your mind - that is not the feel I got reading this thread. Happily surprised I must add. I appreciate your lack of swear words in addressing me as well - so thank you for that. Trust me - he is a charlatan. Give me some time (and spend some yourself) - I need to spank the kids, rape he dog and break off the chocolate I covered my wife in yesterday (just before I fell asleep - yes she is little irritated about that). I’ll be back (and seriously - while you wait expand your search options). Take care! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/285 "2010-06-08T19:35:15Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I call dibs on Link Hogthrob! I dibs Skred! ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/286 "2010-06-08T19:43:29Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Come on, give the neutrals a laugh. Show us some examples. > > How do you know when a politician or a military person on the tv are lying? > > You can see their lips move. Wait, I’m confused. Didn’t you say upthread that we should give _more_ credence to military reports of UFO sightings? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/287 "2010-06-08T20:27:42Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Wait, I’m confused. Didn’t you say upthread that we should give _more_ credence to military reports of UFO sightings? It was a joke, actually. And not even an original one; I’m terrible, I know! The bit about politicians and the military, that is. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/288 "2010-06-08T22:17:19Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Let the record show that **Czarcasm** failed to answer a simple non-leading question, instead prefering to do some irate muttering and threaten to throw his rattle out of the crib. … lol. Failing to answer a simple non-leading question is certainly below your stature. > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Why would you even want to go down that route if you know the man is a charlatan? If you have evidence that he has said he is only in the ufo game for the cash, I want to see it, as this would cause me to totally revise my opinion of his book. Do you realize that if your entire world view, what in your mind is concrete proof, is subject complete disproval if your guy admits he’s full of shit, it’s not really proof? I mean - if Einstein had written the theory of relativity and then said “haha guys just fucking with you” it wouldn’t disprove relativity. The evidence and ideas are still there and independently verifiable and stand on their own. So if your supposed proof is subject to such easy dismissal, it means that there’s no evidence, nothing to let it stand on its own. That the entirety of your belief stems from your desire to let a bullshit artist weave you a story. So you’re asking us to believe in the most world-changing discovery of mankind when you are implictly admitting there’s no evidence that stands on its own to support it, and you’re basically just trusting a crank and asking us to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/289 "2010-06-08T22:19:25Z")
I for one am VERY interested to see **ivan** ’s reaction to the material that **JimNightshade** presents (assuming that it exists and that he presents it). But since I’m demonstrably psychic, let me make a prediction: No matter what the material is, it won’t change **ivan** ’s mind in the slightest. He will still believe Dolan, and he will still worship the woo. I’m bookmarking this thread so that I can use **ivan astikov** as a textbook case of how NOT to (try to) argue. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/290 "2010-06-08T22:25:58Z")
If you can get your hands on some old Skeptical Inquirer magazines (pre-web), I seem to recall they did an article on Dolan which was rather, um, skeptical. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/291 "2010-06-08T23:36:00Z")
I _am_ Oscar the Grouch! Try me, motherfuckers. **ivan** , I’m really fairly impressed at the response you’ve received here. Your history on this board had demonstrated that you had the potential to be a very excellent troll; this thread demonstrates that you have matured into being, perhaps, The Troll. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/292 "2010-06-08T23:38:50Z")
What evidence do you have that he’s trolling and not just retarded? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/293 "2010-06-08T23:41:42Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > What evidence do you have that he’s trolling and not just retarded? The presence of billy goats? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/294 "2010-06-08T23:42:27Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > What evidence do you have that he’s trolling and not just retarded? I would refer you to this here [peer-reviewed thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=566192). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/295 "2010-06-08T23:47:15Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] What evidence do you have that he’s trolling and not just retarded? [/QUOTE] Because of the way he’s posted in this thread. He’s taunting people, egging them on and basically doing all the classic ‘troll’ moves. No real evidence…it’s more a matter of feel. I agree with Frank…he’s trolling. This isn’t to say that he’s not retarded as well. Those aren’t mutually exclusive states of being, after all… -XT ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/296 "2010-06-08T23:58:29Z")
I think I nailed it in post #218 - this thread was started seriously, he was seriously advocating his views, but after universal ridicule he decided to play up the OH LOL I WAS JUST TROLLING angle to try to save a little face. But I don’t doubt the general attitude he’s displayed in this thread is sincere. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/297 "2010-06-09T00:02:58Z")
You can see from [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12549367&postcount=3) made a few hours ago that he thinks he’s fought us all off with his wit and intellect. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/298 "2010-06-09T00:46:07Z")
You may be right, though as I said earlier, if he REALLY wanted a discussion on this he would have put his thread in GD instead of here. Also, there have been some good faith efforts by posters with more patience than I who have attempted to engage him, and he’s done nothing to actually try and engage. If he REALLY wanted a debate on the subject, he would have made at least a cursory effort to engage them (you are one of those posters btw), but he hasn’t. At any rate, whether he’s a troll or just slightly above belly lint in intelligence isn’t all that important at this point. I actually feel kind of bad for him, as this thread was a rather spectacular blowout (though if he is indeed a troll he certainly was spectacularly successful in moving the shinny lure about and catching a large load of 'dopers). -XT ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/299 "2010-06-09T00:49:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Because of the way he’s posted in this thread. He’s taunting people, egging them on and basically doing all the classic ‘troll’ moves. No real evidence…it’s more a matter of feel. I agree with Frank…he’s trolling. > > This isn’t to say that he’s not retarded as well. Those aren’t mutually exclusive states of being, after all… As I once described one of my co-workers, “he acts stupid to cover up the fact that he really is stupid.” ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/300 "2010-06-09T01:39:49Z")
I’m not here to debase Ivan or anyone calling him a ball licker or whatever nonsense happens in these forums… Can anyone refute the fact that we might have been visited by aliens? I understand this denotes empirical proof, and that’s what this shitstorm was based on. However, I’ve seen some other threads where this was intelligently debated on where the popular opinion was : well, if they were here they would have such an awesome grasp of technology which would spin or blow up heads. So, based on the arguments of the past, OF COURSE we would not have detected them. Ivan is going about it the wrong way. Dude, it’s not a religion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300.md?page=16)