# xtisme, come on down, you muppet! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 7, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300 "2010-06-07T17:06:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/301 "2010-06-09T01:49:01Z")
[QUOTE=Darth\_Hamsandwich] Can anyone refute the fact that we might have been visited by aliens? [/QUOTE] Of course not. You can’t prove a negative. Equally, I can’t disprove that the universe came into existence 5 minutes ago, sneezed out of a intergalactic nose either. Nor can I show conclusive proof that Santa Clause doesn’t exist, or that the Easter Bunny isn’t hippity-hoppiting about having carnal knowledge of Elvis. > [@](#): > > I understand this denotes empirical proof, and that’s what this shitstorm was based on. No, it’s not about proof, empirical or otherwise. You simply can’t prove a negative. The onus is on the person with extraordinary claims giving extraordinary proofs. Or, well, anything. Saying ‘read this book, it explains all’ isn’t even in the ball park. > [@](#): > > Ivan is going about it the wrong way. Dude, it’s not a religion. I certainly agree with you there. This is the way to troll people and provoke the kinds of reactions he got, not the way to have a discussion. Personally, I doubt Ivan COULD have brought anything meaningful, regardless, but that’s based on what I’ve seen from him in the latest 9/11 thread. Of course, to be honest, I’ve yet to SEE anything remotely convincing on alien visitation, either in the past or today. Mind, I wish there WERE some. I wish they would find alien technology in some tomb from 10k years ago, or a crashed space craft with real alien bodies. sadly, that hasn’t happened. -XT ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/302 "2010-06-09T01:55:55Z")
Yeah, whatever. The OP has called you a muppet. Are you now or have you ever been a muppet? And if so, which one? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/303 "2010-06-09T02:00:20Z")
Amazing that three threads ago (or so) the major consensus was he was trolling, he admitted it, and that he conceded you were intellectuals. WTF is this thread not shut down? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/304 "2010-06-09T02:09:13Z")
According to a legend that purports that physicists have a sense of humor… Enrico Fermi posed Fermi’s Paradox (“If there really are aliens, where are they”) in the presence of Leo Szilard who quipped: “We’re here, Enrico, we are just disguised as Hungarian Jews.” ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/305 "2010-06-09T02:11:27Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Yeah, whatever. The OP has called you a muppet. Are you now or have you ever been a muppet? And if so, which one? [/QUOTE] I will have you know SIIIIRRRRRH, for the record, I will say that, with regard to my being a muppet that this claim would be outlandish and, uh, fantastic. I’m just not the muppet type. Clearly. With this laundry list of character defects (_drops huge scroll that rolls off into the distance detailing character defects_), all the mistakes I’ve made, largely public. The truth is, however…the truth is that…I AM IRON BEAKER! -XT ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/306 "2010-06-09T02:13:26Z")
Did you not read what the men are supposed to do for 520 fucking days? For a supposed Mars launch? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/307 "2010-06-09T02:33:56Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Nor can I show conclusive proof that Santa Clause doesn’t exist That’s _Sanity Clause_ to you, bub. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/308 "2010-06-09T05:43:02Z")
You can’t fool me. There ain’t no Sanity Claus! ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/309 "2010-06-09T09:50:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > According to a legend that purports that physicists have a sense of humor… > > Enrico Fermi posed Fermi’s Paradox (“If there really are aliens, where are they”) in the presence of Leo Szilard who quipped: > > “We’re here, Enrico, we are just disguised as Hungarian Jews.” Hmmm … Leo Sz **lizard** … makes you wonder, doesn’t it … ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/310 "2010-06-09T09:55:50Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > Hmmm … Leo Sz **lizard** … makes you wonder, doesn’t it … You don’t even have to add the extra “z”. His name is an anagram of Lizards Ole. There’s obviously some sort of Spanish connection to all this. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/311 "2010-06-09T10:21:24Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > … lol. > > Failing to answer a simple non-leading question is certainly below your stature. > > Do you realize that if your entire world view, what in your mind is concrete proof, is subject complete disproval if your guy admits he’s full of shit, it’s not really proof? I mean - if Einstein had written the theory of relativity and then said “haha guys just fucking with you” it wouldn’t disprove relativity. The evidence and ideas are still there and independently verifiable and stand on their own. > > So if your supposed proof is subject to such easy dismissal, it means that there’s no evidence, nothing to let it stand on its own. That the entirety of your belief stems from your desire to let a bullshit artist weave you a story. So you’re asking us to believe in the most world-changing discovery of mankind when you are implictly admitting there’s no evidence that stands on its own to support it, and you’re basically just trusting a crank and asking us to do the same. So, anyone who writes about ufo’s is a crank, or do you have your own recommended source for this kind of information? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/312 "2010-06-09T10:27:57Z")
As for the rest of your presumptions about my decision-making processes, all I was saying was that if Dolan had admitted he was only in it for the money, his credibilty rating would be lessened considerably, but it wouldn’t change the nature of his reports unless he had invented them. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/313 "2010-06-09T10:50:42Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > So, anyone who writes about ufo’s is a crank, or do you have your own recommended source for this kind of information? Not everyone. You could write a book about UFOs from a neutral, investigative point of view. But if your book is about how millions of people have seen UFOs and that there’s just mountains of proof suppressed by the men in black and there’s this massive, massive conspiracy to keep everyone quiet, I’d say there’s about a 99.99999999999999999999999999999% chance you’re a crank. > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > As for the rest of your presumptions about my decision-making processes, all I was saying was that if Dolan had admitted he was only in it for the money, his credibilty rating would be lessened considerably, but it wouldn’t change the nature of his reports unless he had invented them. You said that if you found out the guy was a charlatan, you’d totally reverse your opinion of the book. My conclusion from this is that the book does not feature any sort of evidence - if it did, the evidence could stand on its own. Therefore you are basing your acceptance of this book on the fact that someone you want to believe is weaving you a tale you want to hear. If there were actual evidence, it would be objectively verifiable without having to trust the author, and therefore his credibility wouldn’t be necesary to demonstrate his point. The fact that you’re trying to get us all to read this book as proof of UFOs as if it were some game changing amazing piece of evidence, and yet clearly by your own implicit admission lacks any evidence whatsoever, does not speak well of your ability to rationally evaluate information. Because, you know, that was in doubt. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/314 "2010-06-09T10:57:43Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Not everyone. You could write a book about UFOs from a neutral, investigative point of view. > > But if your book is about how millions of people have seen UFOs and that there’s just mountains of proof suppressed by the men in black and there’s this massive, massive conspiracy to keep everyone quiet, I’d say there’s about a 99.99999999999999999999999999999% chance you’re a crank. Okay, now here you are illustrating your own ignorance and unwillingness to even take a cursory look at this “evidence”. His focus is on the military and other relevant professional’s experiences and interests in this matter. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > You said that if you found out the guy was a charlatan, you’d totally reverse your opinion of the book. My conclusion from this is that the book does not feature any sort of evidence - if it did, the evidence could stand on its own. Therefore you are basing your acceptance of this book on the fact that someone you want to believe is weaving you a tale you want to hear. If there were actual evidence, it would be objectively verifiable without having to trust the author, and therefore his credibility wouldn’t be necesary to demonstrate his point. The fact that you’re trying to get us all to read this book as proof of UFOs as if it were some game changing amazing piece of evidence, and yet clearly by your own implicit admission lacks any evidence whatsoever, does not speak well of your ability to rationally evaluate information. > > Because, you know, that was in doubt. Here’s what I said. > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > If you have evidence that he has said he is only in the ufo game for the cash, I want to see it, as this would cause me to totally revise my opinion of his book. It doesn’t exactly state what you are saying, does it? See, **revise** , not **reverse**. Bit of a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/315 "2010-06-09T11:03:24Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > As for the rest of your presumptions about my decision-making processes . . . Well that’s what the discussion is about; are you a troll or stupid or both. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/316 "2010-06-09T11:04:52Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Okay, now here you are illustrating your own ignorance and unwillingness to even take a cursory look at this “evidence”. His focus is on the military and other relevant professional’s experiences and interests in this matter. I’ve seen plenty of supposed evidence for UFOs. It all fits the same pattern of low grade evidence designed for people who will accept anything to confirm the view they want to believe, following the exact same pattern of other woo. I’d love for there to be actual evidence of UFOs because the idea if fascinating. But what are the odds that one obscure book has uncovered proof of the greatest discovery in mankind’s history and only you know about it? There are probably thousands of books about UFOs, all with the same shitty quality non-evidence. What makes this one so special? Your personal recommendation? You aren’t a person with any sort of credibility. If you insist that I must read this book before I dismiss it, and another crank insists that I read their recommended book, and then another crank insists I read yet a third book - I would have to read every book ever written on the subject, consuming a significant portion of my life, to examine the evidence to your satisfaction. > [@](#): > > Here’s what I said. > It doesn’t exactly state what you are saying, does it? See, **revise** , not **reverse**. Bit of a difference. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/317 "2010-06-09T11:12:15Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Well that’s what the discussion is about; are you a troll or stupid or both. Well, first you’d have to make a case for either. If you think this thread is sufficient, I beg to differ. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/318 "2010-06-09T11:12:56Z")
That’s the beauty of it. You’re either not smart enough to see that you’re stupid, or you’re too trolly to admit you’re a troll. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/319 "2010-06-09T11:16:41Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’ve seen plenty of supposed evidence for UFOs. It all fits the same pattern of low grade evidence designed for people who will accept anything to confirm the view they want to believe, following the exact same pattern of other woo. You mean like fighter pilots, radar operators, military installation guards, and the like? Are you telling me that there is no-one of sufficient intelligence and judgement who takes this subject at all seriously? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300/320 "2010-06-09T11:19:46Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > That’s the beauty of it. You’re either not smart enough to see that you’re stupid, or you’re too trolly to admit you’re a troll. If a troll is someone with a different opinion and outlook on the world to another person, then I’m a troll. Happy now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/xtisme-come-on-down-you-muppet/542300.md?page=17)