# "Y in a circle" logo in Chicago Theatre sign, elsewhere? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 15, 2005, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/y-in-a-circle-logo-in-chicago-theatre-sign-elsewhere/321867 "2005-09-15T22:38:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Old\_Salty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a5b964/32.png) [@Old\_Salty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Old_Salty)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/y-in-a-circle-logo-in-chicago-theatre-sign-elsewhere/321867/1 "2005-09-15T22:38:36Z")
The landmark Chicago Theatre (or is it Theater?) marquee (surely it’s not a marquis?) contains a Y in a circle, behind the middle C in Chicago. It can be seen in this image: [http://www.elviscostello.info/pic/98/chicago/chicago.981016.jpg](http://www.elviscostello.info/pic/98/chicago/chicago.981016.jpg). A similar device is to be found in the Belt Railway logo, which can be seen at one point along the westbound Eisenhower. It’s also online at [http://www.beltrailway.com/](http://www.beltrailway.com/). The Belt’s summer 2001 newsletter ([http://www.beltrailway.com/newsletters/BeltSummer01.pdf](http://www.beltrailway.com/newsletters/BeltSummer01.pdf)) says “[The railway] was shaped like an inverted Y with its top at Dearborn Station. One leg went south to Dolton, Ill., where a connection was made with the Chicago & Eastern Illinois Railroad. The other leg went to State Line Tower on the Indiana line near Hammond, where the Erie Lackawanna and Monon connected”. (No explanation of why the Y in the logo is not inverted.) The old NYC subway tokens had a similar design, for example [http://www.wallstreetcreations.com/images/product-m/tc930-m.jpg](http://www.wallstreetcreations.com/images/product-m/tc930-m.jpg). No mystery about the Y there, or at least _so it seems_. Old CTA tokens also had a design with a three perforations that was somewhat Y-like, but not the same thing. Still it seems the circle Y sign lurks in other Chicago locations. (Mich. Ave. bridge, maybe?) Anybody have other sightings? Exactly what dark forces use this sign? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/y-in-a-circle-logo-in-chicago-theatre-sign-elsewhere/321867/2 "2005-09-15T22:50:06Z")
That is the Chicago Municipal Device. > **[Chicago History](https://www.chipublib.org/chicago-history-3/)** > > Chicago History > > > Show Menu: Chicago History > > > > Chicago History > > Chicago MayorsHarold Washington > > Chicago Timeline > Chicago… > [@](#): > > The Y figure represents the Chicago River, north and south branches. In some uses of the figure, the word “Chicago” appears at the top of the circle, the words “I Will” appear above the Y, and the words “opportunity and a square deal” appear within the bottom of the circle. > > As stated in the Municipal Code: > > 1-8-070 Municipal device-City vehicle identification. > > The municipal device, for use by the varied unofficial > interests of the city and its people, shall show a Y-shaped > figure in a circle, colored and designed to suit individual > tastes and needs. All automobiles and other vehicles > which are owned by the city, except those used by the > commissioner of police, and the detective bureau of the > department of police, shall be distinctly marked as the > property of the city by painting or placing thereon in a > conspicuous place, in such a manner that the same cannot be > removed, the municipal device, together with the words “City > of Chicago,” and the name of the department operating the > said automobile or other vehicle. (Prior code 2-7) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/y-in-a-circle-logo-in-chicago-theatre-sign-elsewhere/321867/3 "2005-09-15T22:53:26Z")
> [@Old Salty](#): > > Exactly what dark forces use this sign? Apart from Chicagoans, Pythagoreans. Also the [4th Panzer Division](http://www.alphaares.com/asl/dawnofanewage.htm), during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Salty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a5b964/32.png) [@Old\_Salty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Old_Salty)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/y-in-a-circle-logo-in-chicago-theatre-sign-elsewhere/321867/4 "2005-09-15T23:08:20Z")
> [@Duck Duck Goose](#): > > That is the Chicago Municipal Device. Nice citation, that. Not very clear to my old sunburned eyes how the Chicago River looks like a Y, however. It might be more like a lazy T, depending on your leaning, but that would neglect a lot of complications within and without the city. So I suspect the Chicago River thing is just a cover story. Is the Y logo present on all city vehicles? ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Salty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a5b964/32.png) [@Old\_Salty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Old_Salty)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/y-in-a-circle-logo-in-chicago-theatre-sign-elsewhere/321867/5 "2005-09-15T23:23:39Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Apart from Chicagoans, Pythagoreans. > > Also the [4th Panzer Division](http://www.alphaares.com/asl/dawnofanewage.htm), during WWII. Now we are talking. The Pythagorean Letter Y (Littera Pythagorae Y). Lots of interesting stuff at [http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/PT/Intro.html#Y](http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/PT/Intro.html#Y). Relation to the Peace Symbol, an inverted Y with an extra “leg” and that Panzer symbol? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/y-in-a-circle-logo-in-chicago-theatre-sign-elsewhere/321867/6 "2005-09-16T00:01:10Z")
> [@Old Salty](#): > > Nice citation, that. Not very clear to my old sunburned eyes how the Chicago River looks like a Y, however. It might be more like a lazy T, depending on your leaning, but that would neglect a lot of complications within and without the city. So I suspect the Chicago River thing is just a cover story. > > Is the Y logo present on all city vehicles? FWIW, I’ve always assumed it was the Chicago River, without any outside sources to back it up. Seems like an obvious representation of the two branches. I don’t think it’s a cover story at all. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/y-in-a-circle-logo-in-chicago-theatre-sign-elsewhere/321867/7 "2005-09-16T00:03:58Z")
> [@Old Salty](#): > > Relation to the Peace Symbol, an inverted Y with an extra “leg” and that Panzer symbol? I was just being a smartass. The 4th Panzer Division’s symbol is a [runic symbol](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runes), _Elhaz_, which represents protection or defense. The Peace Symbol started as a Nuclear Disarmament symbol, and is usually described as representing a stylized fusion the semaphore codes for “N” and “D”, bounded by a circle. While it is certainly tempting to make connections between the concepts behind these various similar symbols, I think it’s best to say that they were developed entirely independently. Unless of course, we want to go all-over Jungian, in which case we should drink more beer and take it over to GD. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/y-in-a-circle-logo-in-chicago-theatre-sign-elsewhere/321867/8 "2005-09-16T00:10:05Z")
> [@Old Salty](#): > > [http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/PT/Intro.html#Y](http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/PT/Intro.html#Y) I can’t access that URL. The server gives me a 403 Forbidden error. > [@Larry Mudd](#): > > The Peace Symbol started as a Nuclear Disarmament symbol, and is usually described as representing a stylized fusion the semaphore codes for “N” and “D”, bounded by a circle. Isn’t it also meant to resemble a long-range bomber, or is that simple coincidence? ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Salty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a5b964/32.png) [@Old\_Salty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Old_Salty)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/y-in-a-circle-logo-in-chicago-theatre-sign-elsewhere/321867/9 "2005-09-16T02:23:14Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > I was just being a smartass. Harrh, long live smartasses! > [@](#): > > The 4th Panzer Division’s symbol is a [runic symbol](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runes), _Elhaz_, which represents protection or defense. > > The Peace Symbol started as a Nuclear Disarmament symbol, and is usually described as representing a stylized fusion the semaphore codes for “N” and “D”, bounded by a circle. > > While it is certainly tempting to make connections between the concepts behind these various similar symbols, I think it’s best to say that they were developed entirely independently. > > Unless of course, we want to go all-over Jungian, in which case we should drink more beer and take it over to GD. 😃 Ah yes, a google on ‘peace symbol rune’ kicks up a lot of stuff from the tinfoil hat crowd and maybe some serious stuff as well. “Todesrune”, and so on. I just happened to notice that “Reminiscences of Early Chicago” by E. O. Gale, published in 1902, bear the “municipal device” on its spine…only inverted this time. No explanation in the text that I recall. Been sitting there on the bookshelf all this time. Cue the twilight zone music. Nothing here a few beers won’t clear up in time. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/y-in-a-circle-logo-in-chicago-theatre-sign-elsewhere/321867/10 "2005-09-16T02:33:39Z")
Since the Y in the marquee has a C superimposed directly over it, I always assumed it stood for _Yes, Cecil._ A discreet nod by the city fathers to an illustrious native son…