# YA NFL question: when did "that" become a definite article? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [October 31, 2023, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ya-nfl-question-when-did-that-become-a-definite-article/992374 "2023-10-31T15:43:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ya-nfl-question-when-did-that-become-a-definite-article/992374/1 "2023-10-31T15:43:47Z")
Examples: He got that left arm in there. He almost made it to that down marker. I fully understand that language is what people speak, and I am not a stickler for correct grammar, but this makes me itch. It’s probably common in all sports broadcasting, but football is the only sport I watch. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ya-nfl-question-when-did-that-become-a-definite-article/992374/2 "2023-10-31T15:57:38Z")
Your examples seem like perfectly normal, if a bit colloquial, speech. They certainly don’t seem like examples of a type of speech that’s unique to NFL announcers. What would you consider ‘corrected’ versions of your examples? He got _his_ left arm in there. He almost made it to _the_ down marker. Something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ya-nfl-question-when-did-that-become-a-definite-article/992374/3 "2023-10-31T16:03:19Z")
Yeah, I think this is just mostly normal speach patterns that creap into all forms of communication. I don’t think it has anything to do with NFL or sports, it happens everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ya-nfl-question-when-did-that-become-a-definite-article/992374/4 "2023-10-31T16:05:35Z")
What does YA mean? ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ya-nfl-question-when-did-that-become-a-definite-article/992374/5 "2023-10-31T16:10:31Z")
‘Yet Another’ would be my guess…? Probably not ‘Young Adult’. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ya-nfl-question-when-did-that-become-a-definite-article/992374/6 "2023-10-31T16:32:22Z")
The words “the”, “this”, “that”, “these”, and “those” are all closely related, originally being different case-endings of the same word. Vestiges of the evolution to contemporary usages are out there. > **[That | Historical usage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That#Historical_usage)** > > In Old English, that did not exist, and was only represented by þe. It originated in the north of England sometime before the 1200s and spread around the country in the thirteenth century; it then rapidly became the dominant demonstrative pronoun. Before the writings of Ælfric of Eynsham, þæt was normally regularized as þe in writing, but by the time Ælfric lived, þæt was common. As a pronoun, þæt was widely used in Old English, though it was later replaced by wh- words. Where þe In Old English ... ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ya-nfl-question-when-did-that-become-a-definite-article/992374/7 "2023-10-31T16:39:55Z")
My take is that the announcer is describing something you’re both looking at, so it’s almost as if he’s pointing to it as he’s speaking. (He may even be doing exactly that with the telestrator.) So it emphasizes that it wasn’t just any old left arm – it was _that_ one, right there. Related: Ever notice that when a defensive lineman deflects a pass or a kick, the announcer always says “he got that big ol’ paw up there”? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ya-nfl-question-when-did-that-become-a-definite-article/992374/8 "2023-10-31T16:41:20Z")
In the NFL it means Yelberton Abraham. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ya-nfl-question-when-did-that-become-a-definite-article/992374/9 "2023-10-31T16:58:18Z")
Yet Another NFL question. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ya-nfl-question-when-did-that-become-a-definite-article/992374/10 "2023-10-31T18:46:54Z")
And what I’m saying is that “his” would be so much more descriptive. “His big 'ol paw” make it clear that he didn’t grab someone else’s big 'ol paw, but quite definitely used his own! ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ya-nfl-question-when-did-that-become-a-definite-article/992374/11 "2023-10-31T20:41:48Z")
Straight from the dictionary (emphasis added) > determiner > determiner: that; determiner: those > 1. > **used to identify a specific person or thing observed or heard by the speaker.** > “look at that man there” > referring to the more distant of two things near to the speaker (the other, if specified, being identified by “this”). > 2. > referring to a specific thing previously mentioned, known, or understood. > “he lived in Mysore at that time” > 3. > used in singling out someone or something and ascribing a distinctive feature to them. > “I have always envied those people who make their own bread” > 4. > **referring to a specific person or thing assumed as understood or familiar to the person being addressed.** > “where is that son of yours?” Seems perfectly acceptable to me ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ya-nfl-question-when-did-that-become-a-definite-article/992374/12 "2023-10-31T20:53:34Z")
By most (I have no statistical data to justify using “most”) people, “that” is used in the #1 sense, to refer to a specific one of similar objects. That ball (not some other ball) is the one he caught. There is only one ball in play at a time, there is only one first down line to gain. Like I said, I’m not trying to be overly pedantic, but it grates when I hear it. He caught the ball. He made it to the line to gain. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ya-nfl-question-when-did-that-become-a-definite-article/992374/13 "2023-10-31T20:59:58Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > In the NFL it means Yelberton Abraham Yelberton Abraham “Post Tittle Here” I like it.