Yaacct... [Yet another anthropomorphic [sic] climate change thread]

The site I linked already to has many links showing that the article was rejected twice by the major climate journals, it is really sad but the context does show that the editor of the journal published this paper just because he wanted to stir controversy, not much because of the quality of the paper.

BTW an interactive open source journal is not really what we could call “quality” that needs to be demonstrated with what we get from it and so far it is a very sorry and bound to be ignored paper.

Well, he’s chasing that elusive Earth System advertising revenue, trying to appeal to that Earth System fan demographic.

The site you linked to has nothing of the sort (unless I am missing it). When it says it has been “rejected twice at different journals”, the two links provided are simply copies of the paper at the personal websites of each author.

Regardless, journals reject papers for all kinds of reasons, including the possibility that they didn’t like the conclusions and assumed the paper must be bullshit for that reason, without bothering to investigate further. Just like many people in this thread.

I am not a climate change denier, by the way. I am a scientist and I think most of the work on climate change is good science. But since I do not work directly in the field, I am not so exhausted by all the bullshit that I am automatically assume any contradictory claims are bullshit, and looking in from the outside, I think many people in the field are guilty of that, and that it will one day come back to bite them, although probably not as a total refutation of AGW.

That James is James Annan:

climate scientist and statistics expert.

I still go for what he reports. One of the papers does indeed report that was made in 2010 for one journal.

Not impressed at all with what you say here, just to notice that so far it is clear that you rely on really bullshit sites to say that 97 of what climate scientists are reporting is not science. Or that they are guilty… of what? Just being human when reacting to stupid irrational arguments, but no one found any evidence that they did anything wrong to the data or faked the science?

And no, it is not true that I did not investigate further, that property belongs to you when you do not realize that outfits like WUWT and Powerline are bullshitters and the paper was replied to almost 3 years ago. (as some mentioned it, was already pre-debunked) That it is being accepted now by a journal that is not one of the main ones related to this subject should raise red flags after what was reported before by the ones that are experts in the matter.

The best -to go guy- on these statistical matters in climate is currently busy writing a book, but that does not stop the good commentators in his site to point at the reality that indeed the core points made were replied to a few years back.

And once again, as I have seen many times in the past, this is happening when you get experts from other fields coming to a different one thinking that they have all the answers.

After 3 years of looking around for an editor that is not so good at it, the authors of the flawed paper managed to publish it, what you are seeing now is indeed just the same copy paste argumentation of papers that are usually ignored by the experts but because it was somehow published it is pumped up as (once again, as many times in the past) the “final nail in the coffin” for the AGW theory, that is so fond of climate change deniers. Science writer Peter Hadfield also noticed that many times before.

Huh?

Huh? What are you talking about? I didn’t use the word guilty and I didn’t say anything about “97” anything. Are you responding to someone else’s post but quoting me by accident?

Your other points are well-taken and I will have to read the paper more carefully before I remember enough statistics to say anything else about it.

One of the articles in PDF format is dated 2010, it matches what other sites reported about the authors of the paper that is being discussed, that is the mentioned rejection date reported by the sites that are critical of the paper.

Uh, you did use “guilty”, and accused many in the field of that:

[QUOTE=Absolute]
I think many people in the field are guilty of that, and that it will one day come back to bite them, although probably not as a total refutation of AGW.
[/QUOTE]

And so, it was important then to bring a cite that summaries how this sorry idea that there is evidence of shady business from the climate scientists is coming from and that it has to be dealt with once again.

And that is ok, I have to report that I got suck into this subject when I noticed how sites like Powerline and WUWT can still continue to omit the whole background and the whole truth of many subjects and I still see many still relying on that poisoned well of information. One does not need to be an expert, one only needs to able to identify the good sources from the bad.

Err..oops. :smack: In my defense, the “97” confused me.

And to be fair, then one :smack: for me, that was supposed to be “97% of climate scientists.”

So is this, like, when hurricanes take human form or something?

(I mean, they do have eyes…)

Just to clarify a bit of information.
“97% of climate scientists” means 77 people answering YES to two softball questions that would’ve gotten at least a 75% agreement of sceptics.

Many other surveys confirmed that one, as mentioned before, some do not understand surveys. Now, if we concentrated on the percentage of Economists that submit papers on climate change, the ones who are skeptics could get similar numbers… :slight_smile:

Cite? for the surveys.

Economists are very good at mathematical modelling, so I don’t see why you would dismiss it offhand
Economists don’t need to submit papers on climate change, they head the IPCC.

:mad: You see?! You see?! More proof of the Great Global Warming Conspiracy!

Pointed at many times before but ignored many times before.

And that is why you should not ignore them:

Nordhaus contributions to the IPCC are very important. And he is not shy to tell others how wrong the fake skeptics are.

Well if the consensus is “human are a cause of the increase in temperatures in the last 100 years” it’s a pretty low bar. I’m sure your good friend Anthony Watts or Warren Meyer or Steve McIntyre or Lord Monkton would also agree.

I’d love a consensus based, for instance, on how much forcing is caused by CO2 or the role of black carbon in the change of albedo in the Arctic and how important it is in the reduction of the ice cover.

Nope, as usual you did not paid any attention the latest from them was to once again claim that the data collected and corrected before from the temperature stations in the USA showed that the warming observed was not reliable because the data was corrupted, as it turns out, Watts and others are still the ones that continue to be corrupted, and even McIntyre had to tell Watts that he was overreaching.

And I would love to try to find opponents that do not do the usual moving of the goal posts. Like Watts and company.

As usual, you answer a the phrase you would’ve like me to have said. I said agreement that humans have caused at least some of the waming.
Let’s see.

Watts: I agree with him [Dr. Muller]that global warming exists. However, the ability to attribute the percentage of global warming to CO2 versus other man-made influences is still an open question
So it’s a yes for Watts.

Meyers: Here is the key point, which you dismiss as tangential: While the world has indeed warmed over the last century, and some of that warming has almost certainly been due to man-made CO2, climate scientists are grossly exaggerating future warming in large part because they are exaggerating positive feedback effects in the climate system.
It’s a yes for Meyers.

McIntrye: There is considerable evidence that in many locations the late 20th century was generally warmer than the mid-19th century.
It’s a yes.

Monkton:The ratio of CO2 emissions to concentration change – useful as an independent constraint on climate sensitivity – suggests that CO2-driven warming in the 21st century may be little more than 1 K. In the short term and perhaps also in the long, climate sensitivity may lie below the values found in the general-circulation models.
Four out of four yeses. They all agree, they are part of the consensus.

There can be no debate if we agree that humans are responsible for at least some warming. The debate is the details, but, maybe debating the hard science is moving goalposts.
Can you propose a specific, scientific aspect to debate?

Not the point here, the point was to demonstrate how bankrupt the people making this paper and watts and company are.

As it was posted before, you are only demonstrating that it is better to completely ignore that Watts says something to one group and does the opposite, His site BTW came to exist thanks to his misguided attempt at discrediting the warming data itself. And recently he still came with his face on the floor in his attempt to contradict what you helpfully just posted.

The debate is already into this very point as mentioned by others, the sites from the OP did mislead by not reporting on the context, and once again, if there is a site that does claim to be “in agreement with the warming” you are really showing to others that you are not paying attention when ignoring how they in reality are never willing to dismiss their old contradictory and misguided efforts.

The specific item to discuss is the quality of the sources.

It’s true, there’s little chance of the climate suddenly taking humanoid form.

You keep running away from actual scientific debate.
You presented the famous 97% and when shown actual evidence that prominent sceptics agree with the main point of the 97% you do not answer to that but fall back to debating other stuff. With you it’s always intentions and phrases, never data.

Did you catch Mann accepting that there hasn’t been any warming for a decade? Maybe his BP/Shell/Heritage check finally cleared.