# Yacht Rock: what is it and what's its origin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [December 24, 2024, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120 "2024-12-24T15:49:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/181 "2025-01-04T15:22:16Z")
> [@Strenger](#): > > WTH does Steely Dan have to do with some Kenny Loggins falsetto or anything else? Michael McDonald, of course! ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/182 "2025-01-04T15:59:01Z")
If you want to know the difference between Tiffany and Debbie Gibson, you have to watch [Mega Python vs. Gatoroid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mega_Python_vs._Gatoroid). (I’ve never actually watched that one. Does anybody know if there were any yachts in it?) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/183 "2025-01-04T17:05:39Z")
> [@Strenger](#): > > Are you serious? Those are wildly different bassists! I don’t have a career as a music critic, but it’s obviously a joke on my part. Relevant XKCD: > **[Average Familiarity](https://xkcd.com/2501/)** ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/184 "2025-01-04T17:15:13Z")
Witness the regular whining about acronyms when someone uses one that is simply a common noun in their milieu. And that joke went utterly over my head. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/185 "2025-01-04T20:04:14Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > A primitive 1970s drum machine would have done as well for that part at least. The first drum machine used in recording in the 70s was a Roland TR-77. It didn’t begin to have the capabilities to play that beat. Modern drum machines couldn’t even play that beat convincingly. It is a very intricate drum pattern, one that put Steve Gadd on the map as one of the most recorded drummers in history, with a discography that is simply staggering. Millions of drummers around the world would recognize that beat instantly and be able to tell you who played it. I get that you aren’t impressed with it. That’s fine. But to dismiss it as something any 70s drum machine could play shows a profound amount of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Strenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@Strenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strenger)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/186 "2025-01-04T20:10:44Z")
> [@Disinfectus](#): > > It is a very intricate drum pattern, one that put Steve Gadd on the map as one of the most recorded drummers in history, with a discography that is simply staggering. And he came up as one hell of a tap dancer as well, as was traditional for drummers of a certain persuasion. True story. > [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > conflating Debbie Gibson and Tiffany Sure. One had kind of reddish/auburn hair and the other was a bit more hair rock. Hey, man, I _lived_ it! I disliked both of them equally, actually, but memory, it isn’t what it used to be when it comes to names. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/187 "2025-01-04T20:12:44Z")
Yep, he tap-danced on the Mickey Mouse Club in the 50s as a small child. There is footage on YouTube. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/188 "2025-01-04T20:20:43Z")
Yeah, that Steve Gadd beat is legendary. I can’t imaging a drum machine reproducing the subtleties and feel. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/189 "2025-01-04T20:49:50Z")
> [@Disinfectus](#): > > But to dismiss it as something any 70s drum machine could play shows a profound amount of ignorance. Guilty. Or maybe I should plead ignorance. But no, I honestly don’t see it. I’m not necessarily proud of that, but I’m honest about it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/190 "2025-01-04T21:04:59Z")
I feel seen! Although the pedant in me wants to point out olivine is a series just like feldspar. ---
**Author:** ![Strenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@Strenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strenger)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/191 "2025-01-04T22:01:16Z")
All right, I got the definitive answer. So I was just grabbing a couple slices of pizza, and what was on the (music) box? Sounded like yacht rock! So I think it was the owner (or one of the owners) who rang me up, and while I was waiting for the pizza to heat, I said to him, “So, you gotta tell me, because of an internet thing…is this ‘yacht rock’?” He answered without equivocation. “Yeah, this _is_ yacht rock.” I’d guess he was in his mid to late thirties. On my way out the younger fellow (probably early twenties at most) who was making the pies said “What’d he say?” “He asked if this was ‘yacht rock’!” And then they kind of laughed, probably at my expense. Hey! I was gathering data for you fools! So, yes. It seems boots on the ground know what it is and so forth. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Guilty. Or maybe I should plead ignorance. But no, I honestly don’t see it. I’m not necessarily proud of that, but I’m honest about it. Yeah, you’re OK. I’m just a regular musician, and not that great these days. Not a critic or blogger or anything. I welcome the POV of regular people who don’t get all huffy. Not that it matters what my position is, but I appreciate it for knowledge’s sake. ```auto https://youtu.be/w10EvTgxb-s ``` ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/192 "2025-01-04T22:45:05Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > This entire discussion strikes me as foodies waxing eloquent over the subtle differences between Wendy’s and Burger King. I can sure be a foodie, but I’m also sure not going to wax eloquent over Wendy’s. I would tend to agree. Nirvana, Green Day, Counting Crows, and Dave Mathews Band all have very different sounds and genres, but few would argue or complain if hearing them all lumped together in a “90s Alt Rock” playlist. L[ike take this YR playlist someone created on YouTube,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jF7vmR535E&list=PLemLulPSDQ8uec7IBuwIQKswQKDZtEsp1&index=46) they are songs from different artists and genres (or sub-genres of 70s/80s soft rock / adult contemporary / pop music if you prefer). But I do see a lot of similarities in terms of lyrics, drum beats, instruments, etc. - High production value - Smooth and catchy sound - Use of “elite” Los Angeles–based studio musicians and producers typically associated with yacht rock - Jazz and R&B influences - Use of electric piano and/or saxophone (e.g. Michael McDonald) - Complex and wry lyrics about heartbroken, foolish men (particularly involving the word “fool” in the title or lyrics) - An upbeat rhythm called the “[Doobie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doobie_Brothers) Bounce” ---
**Author:** ![Strenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@Strenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strenger)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/193 "2025-01-04T23:34:09Z")
Yeah, I agree with MSMITH Johnson…I think since the beginning, there’s no doubt. I don’t know about the Doobie Bounce, and I’d question the use of the Rhodes piano…and certainly ts and as…James Brown did exist and his various bands. I mean, c’mon. Ray Charles was using the electric piano, the Wurlitzer, in the 1950s. Certainly in country music, widespread, soul, whatever. But, yeah, probably wider use of consoles, compression (even if used only as a “louder” crude tool)…expansion of the number of tracks without bouncing/submixing. https:// [www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItXjq0KJBns](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItXjq0KJBns) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2025, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/194 "2025-01-05T02:18:32Z")
Sounds like Mr. Fagan is not fond of the “death of the author” concept. Who could blame him? After all his creative efforts and the general public reduces its interpretation to a silly moniker. Could be worse, though. Ted Hughes finally couldn’t take any more of Sylvia Plath’s irrationality and moved out. After her suicide and for the rest of his life he was hounded by a general public whose interpretation was that he himself might as well held her head in the oven. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2025, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/195 "2025-01-05T04:40:21Z")
> [@Strenger](#): > > I don’t know about the Doobie Bounce, and I’d question the use of the Rhodes piano…and certainly ts and as…James Brown did exist and his various bands. I mean, c’mon. Ray Charles was using the electric piano, the Wurlitzer, in the 1950s. Certainly in country music, widespread, soul, whatever. Well, there’s more than one way to electric piano. I wouldn’t say you were definitely in Yacht Rock territory just because you used an electric piano. But if you did use it directly into the board to get a clean sound and are playing a slowish set of changes without a lot of dynamics, you might be nearing its edges. Plug it into an auto-wah, an echo and an amp that is overdriving, make sure you’re hitting the 1 hard, and you’re far more likely to sound funky. But generally I agree, any specific instruments being linked to the genre seems pretty silly to me. Yacht Rock/Elevator Soul (I’m really starting to like the latter name) can use any instrument. The only two instruments I can think of off the top of my head that I can’t think of an instance of them being used are the kazoo and the modular synth, maybe the banjo\*. That’s probably not from a lack of trying, it was a quite profitable genre for awhile. It still might be today for some folks. So, somebody might have even used those unlikely candidates. > [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Sounds like Mr. Fagan is not fond of the “death of the author” concept. Who could blame him? After all his creative efforts and the general public reduces its interpretation to a silly moniker. Yep, you get to make it and put it out there and market it. That’s really where your control ends. I can think of numerous “Punks” who didn’t want to be classed with Punk, numerous “Goths” who didn’t want to be classed with Goth, Aphex Twin thinks the category “Intelligent Dance Music” is stupid because it implies that the rest of dance music is stupid. It never stops, and usually the ones who don’t like the moniker are the ones who pioneered the sound. Heck, I’ve had someone more prestigious than myself tell me that they formed their current band because they were inspired by the band I was in. I immediately thought “Jesus, don’t tell me that. I totally fucking hate your band.”, while I’m sure I did my best Nancy Regan zombie eyeball stare. My band was a pretty offensive band in its own way, and their band was wayyyyyyyyy more offensive than mine was. I thought we were smart, and they were just being disgusting. Once more than your friends and family start coming to your shows, you simply don’t get to pick your fans. \*I don’t _think_ Bela Fleck ever did Yacht Rock, but my knowledge of the subject is less than comprehensive. I expect someone to come up with examples of all three being used in the genre shortly. ---
**Author:** ![Strenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@Strenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strenger)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2025, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/196 "2025-01-05T04:47:58Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Well, there’s more than one way to electric piano. I wouldn’t say you were definitely in Yacht Rock territory just because you used an electric piano. But if you did use it directly into the board to get a clean sound and are playing a slowish set of changes without a lot of dynamics, you might be nearing its edges. Plug it into an auto-wah, an echo and an amp that is overdriving, make sure you’re hitting the 1 hard, and you’re far more likely to sound funky. All right! Yeah, we’re probably going way OT, but now you’re talking about something I can understand. Direct into some…what…like 32-channel console, compressed all to hell, and bumped back up to line level…yeah, that’s gonna be some _smoove_ Rhodes piano. Bonus points if it has a Small Stone Phaser on it. Lot different than the EP from RC to Aretha through the late 1960s, or Patrice Rushen and Herbie, when they and people like George Duke were hitting the instrument hard through…maybe 1975 or so. Yeah, I follow. It’s not so much an argument, from my POV, anymore, but it is kind of interesting. Especially since my pizza joint anecdote indicates it’s still in the air today. The very floating biscuit of music. > [@scabpicker](#): > > Elevator Soul (I’m really starting to like the latter name) Yeah, I kind of like that more now as well. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2025, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/197 "2025-01-05T05:15:45Z")
> [@Strenger](#): > > Yeah, we’re probably going way OT, but now you’re talking about something I can understand. Ehh, I don’t think it’s OT. It kind of speaks to the “what is it” of the OP. I doubt I have the expertise necessary to truly define the genre, though. > [@Strenger](#): > > Direct into some…what…like 32-channel console, compressed all to hell, and bumped back up to line level…yeah, that’s gonna be some _smoove_ Rhodes piano. Bonus points if it has a Small Stone Phaser on it. Yeah, direct into any board. If it has nice preamps, you might drive it some, but not a lot. Light on the compression, you’re going for clean. I generally agree with these points from the list, though. > [@msmith537](#): > > - High production value > - Smooth and catchy sound > - Use of “elite” Los Angeles–based studio musicians and producers typically associated with yacht rock > - Jazz and R&B influences I can’t think of anything in the genre that doesn’t have (or at least tries to have) those components, even if the “elite” Los Angeles producer and musician part is self-referential. ---
**Author:** ![Strenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@Strenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strenger)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2025, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/198 "2025-01-05T05:26:00Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Yeah, direct into any board. If it has nice preamps, you might drive it some, but not a lot. Light on the compression, you’re going for clean. 🤣 Yeah, but not if there a twelve other channels with horns on them, and six drum mics! Yeah, I think somebody said earlier in the thread, it’s really sound design or production. So, sure, Chuck Rainey gets maybe two channels, and we’re talking early 1970s, so a Neve console or an SSL with thirty-two channels…it’s…lot of money. No way does even Steve Gadd get eight tracks, the way some average stupe does playing a house job these days for a live job from FOH. Well, I don’t actually know, not having bought studio time back in the day, nor paid for engineers. OTOH Whoever did the early Tower of Power records, with all those horns, plus Chester Thompson on the Hammond organ (FRFR…two channels at least for Hammond along)… I don’t know. It can be done. Same with the Columbia Herbie records, Stevie Wonder, and even regional hitmakers like Lee Dorsey. Probably down to taste, payola, and the market, really. ---
**Author:** ![Strenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@Strenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strenger)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2025, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/199 "2025-01-05T06:10:43Z")
I mean, I don’t have to go this recent. https:/ /www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvJH0x1CTho. Tower of Power from 1973, “Squib Cakes.” Astonishing, and no, I’ve no idea what desk they used. It certainly wasn’t thirty-two channels. Probably sixteen or even eight. No idea. But Rudy van Gelder was doing great recordings in the 1950s with one or two microphones and a broken Hammond organ. Yeah, I don’t think it’s the technology, nor, of course, the musicianship, but just a different standard among the listening public. Better car speakers. Better **any** speakers. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2025, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/200 "2025-01-05T07:50:08Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’ve listened to that song countless times over the years. Other than the couple of months it first got played to death, I’ve always enjoyed it in a silly throwaway sense. I never noticed it had drums beyond the usual repetitive “thump thumpety thump” in the background just like every other song of the era. > > I just listened to it a moment ago and it does contain a long-ish drum opening I recognized instantly but before that listen I did not consciously know or remember it was even there. The entire rest of the song has drums that are just “thump thumpety thump” in the background. A primitive 1970s drum machine would have done as well for that part at least. I mean, it’s no “When the Levee Breaks”, but it’s a catchy rhythm. > [@mbh](#): > > If you want to know the difference between Tiffany and Debbie Gibson, you have to watch [Mega Python vs. Gatoroid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mega_Python_vs._Gatoroid). Also, to my knowledge, Tiffany was never pregnant with Mojo Nixon’s two-headed love child. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120.md?page=11)