# Yacht Rock: what is it and what's its origin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [December 24, 2024, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120 "2024-12-24T15:49:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/61 "2024-12-23T18:21:57Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](#): > > How about ‘Dirty Work’ ? That feels pretty yachty to me. Their first album, where they were being pushed by their record company to be more commercial, is the closest to yacht rock. I’m not sure about “Dirty Work,” though. How about “Brooklyn (Owes the Charmer Under Me)”. It’s got Skunk Baxter playing pedal steel. Not terribly jazz-y. > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1011994/59): > > Young college women could have Bread and America Bread is nothing but I loved America and still do. Don’t care what the cool kids say. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/62 "2024-12-23T18:43:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > How about “Brooklyn (Owes the Charmer Under Me)”. It’s got Skunk Baxter playing pedal steel. Not terribly jazz-y. I forgot about this song. I think if I included it in my yacht rock playlist, it wouldn’t feel out of place, though it is more sophisticated lyrically and instrumentally. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/63 "2024-12-23T18:44:46Z")
Maybe some of the resentment was due to it being overplayed, and the “this is what we’ve decided you _want_ to listen to!” factor (something we’re largely spared today outside the Xmas season, but you oldsters remember from the 70’s if you lived in a MOR radio market; subjected to _Mr Bojangles_ and the Doobies’ _Black Water_ all day until Beaker Street came on the air late at night). ---
**Author:** ![XOldiesJock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ec9cab/32.png) [@XOldiesJock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XOldiesJock)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/64 "2024-12-23T19:32:24Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > _…subjected to Mr Bojangles and the Doobies’ Black Water all day until Beaker Street came on the air late at night._ “Beaker Street” was a now-legendary free-form rock (or “underground”) late night feature on 50,000 watt AM blowtorch KAAY out of Little Rock, Arkansas, that ran from 1966 to sometime in the 1970s. This was pretty groundbreaking, since K-Double-A-Y was a typical Top 40 station for most of its broadcast day. And they did it in Little Rock ARK of all places, hardly a counterculture mecca then or now. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/65 "2024-12-23T19:55:54Z")
Wow, this passed me by entirely. I thought “Beaker Street” was a typo for Gerry Rafferty’s “Baker Street,” which was played incessantly. And well it should be. One of the all-time greats. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/66 "2024-12-23T20:26:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I must admit, I’m having a hard time distinguishing between many of these so-called archetypical yacht rock artists, like Scaggs’s _Jo Jo_ up there, or the Steely Dan I know, and the smooth jazz stylings of George Benson, Bobby Caldwell, later Bill Withers or Michael Franks . It’s worth noting that in the web series Yacht Rock, they don’t actually use the term “yacht rock”. They talk about “smooth music” (or “smyooth music” as James Adomian’s Vincent Price would say). ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/67 "2024-12-23T21:30:29Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > …but you oldsters remember from the 70’s if you lived in a MOR radio market; subjected to _Mr Bojangles_ and the Doobies’ _Black Water_ all day until Beaker Street came on the air late at night). Omigosh, [Beaker Street!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_Street) I’d forgotten KAAY, “Underground Radio”! It only came through late at night, when I’d have to warm up the tubes on the giant AM radio next to my bed. And it introduced me to AOR. It had that “edge” that the soft rock bands were trying hard to sand off… (I mean, Boz Scaggs was in a blues band with Steve Miller and Ben Sidran before he decided to go mainstream… though I do like his almost-disco-only-slightly bluesy-pop stuff: _Lido Shuffle_ is great music nonetheless). ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/68 "2024-12-23T21:34:38Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1012115/28): > > It is very much, IMO, New England rich WASP sounding to me. I’d even say it’s a stereotypical rich snooty guy with a yacht. Intentionally so, I believe. I’m pretty sure that they are poking a little good-natured fun at the genre. (FWIW, that voiceover’s snooty accent reminds me of Thurston Howell III from _Gilligan’s Island_.) ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/69 "2024-12-23T21:41:58Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1012115/28): > > It is very much, IMO, New England rich WASP sounding to me. I’d even say it’s a stereotypical rich snooty guy with a yacht. Yeah, I think those are funny. 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/70 "2024-12-23T22:51:05Z")
It’s always a III. Sometimes I think they start with the III and skip the I and II. Did you know that Bill Gates - William Henry Gates - is a III? His family nickname was, inevitably, Trey. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/71 "2024-12-23T23:44:57Z")
Did not read the whole thread. First ~40 posts, then jumped to the end to post my own drivel … ISTM the real problem is the term. Had the original article retroactively defined a genre called “Yacht Pop” there’d be almost no issues. The problem is that “rock” was supposed to be edgy and youthful and rebellious and counter-cultural and … None of which is associated with Mr. Howell being driven around on his serious yacht sipping Old Fashioneds. Or even with a local fatcat used car dealership owner cruising around on his ~30-footer slamming small-batch bourbon or guzzling beers. They want unchallenging pop lite from their youth. And almost by definition the yacht set is at least age 40, and now mostly 50-70 ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/72 "2024-12-24T00:46:02Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The problem is that “rock” was supposed to be edgy and youthful and rebellious and counter-cultural and … Was it the '60s or later when we decided this (i.e., when there was a large market of youthful baby boomers)? Because that doesn’t seem to have any point actually been descriptive of all music classified as “rock” - some of it, sure, but not anywhere near all of it. Youthful, okay (but really mostly in the '50s and 60s, IMO), but rebellious and counter-culture - nope, nowhere near all was that at any time. But certain people have, IMO, narrowed rock down to a certain “purist” (which actually isn’t particularly pure or native to any era) strain that would exclude most of what was unambiguously classified as rock when it was produced, and it’s kind of ridiculous. > [@](#): > > They want unchallenging pop lite from their youth. And almost by definition the yacht set is at least age 40, and now mostly 50-70 “From their youth” - sure, a lot of people settle into a sound/group/etc. young and stick with the same thing over again. “Unchallenging” - well, if you’ve heard it 400 times, it is unchallenging by now. But there doesn’t seem to me to any actual likelihood that’s it’s pop lite v what was anything else, even what was (back then) the edgy, rebellious, and youthful sound. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/73 "2024-12-24T01:15:13Z")
There was an earlier “Sailing” by the Sutherland Brothers in 1972, popularized by Rod Stewart in '75. Give the Sutherlands credit for Proto-Yacht. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/74 "2024-12-24T01:18:46Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1011994/25): > > And you sail on a… Sailboat. 😛 > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1012115/28): > > It is very much, IMO, New England rich WASP sounding to me. I’d even say it’s a stereotypical rich snooty guy with a yacht. But I enjoy it, it is funny. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/75 "2024-12-24T04:05:53Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > The quintessential YR artist was mentioned upthread by @kenobi_65 and i’ll post this as exhibit A: If Boz Scaggs is the quintessential YR artist, then this must be Yacht Rock, right? [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vv60Dz9hUPo/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AHUBoAC4AOKAgwIABABGGIgYihiMA8=&rs=AOn4CLBc4ePMlk2INVbW-zwEnJQesyfmqQ "Duane Allman & Boz Scaggs ~ ''Loan Me A Dime'' 1969") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv60Dz9hUPo) ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/76 "2024-12-24T04:39:44Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > It’s worth noting that in the web series Yacht Rock, they don’t actually use the term “yacht rock”. They talk about “smooth music” (or “smyooth music” as James Adomian’s Vincent Price would say). This is the most salient point in this thread. For all the arguing here about what is or isn’t yacht rock, the guys that invented the term didn’t make any particular effort to apply it to the music at all. The entire premise of the series is that the ‘smooth music’ of the 70s was all masterminded by a fictional character that lived on a yacht and wore stereotypical boating clothes. “Nobody’s leaving until Loggins finds the keys to his Trans Am.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/77 "2024-12-24T04:45:52Z")
And perhaps now we all understand that something that began as a joke has accreted meanings and baggage so it’s accepted as a real thing that impacts peoples’ lives rather than being just a meme. See also QAnon. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/78 "2024-12-24T05:16:57Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Rock is a huge genre. It doesn’t start and end with Cream and Led Zeppelin. I don’t think anyone is arguing that isn’t the truth. There are tons of sub-genres ounder the rock tent. One can argue forever about what fits where. i actually like what has come to be known as yacht rock. But the term is still derogatory. Just like “wuss rock”, a genre that has one band in it: Journey. And I like Journey, too. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/79 "2024-12-24T06:32:27Z")
I think it’s possible any artist may have produced both Yacht Rock/SmoooooveMusic songs (_JoJo_/_Hey Nineteen_) and non-YR songs (_Loan Me A Dime_/Apparently all the rest of the Steely Dan catalogue, I wouldn’t know, I can’t be bothered to check as i hate Fagen’s voice). So coming up with non-YR examples from any artists doesn’t counter anything. _Artists_ don’t have to only play one genre, it’s the _songs_ that fall into a genre (or a few genres). Oh, and the term is _definitely_ derogatory when I use it. I don’t like any of the songs I know are examples of it (whereas I love _everything_ in the somewhat similar Sophisti-Pop genre). I’ve tried to figure out why that is, and I keep coming around to YR being kinda _laddish_ in a way S-P just is not. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120/80 "2024-12-24T06:44:26Z")
So is the Beach Boys’ “Sloop John B” Yacht Rock? Or is it Sloop Rock? And what about “Kokomo”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yacht-rock-what-is-it-and-whats-its-origin/1012120.md?page=5)