# Yale English Majors: Stop Teaching Us About White Male Poets. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2016, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008 "2016-06-10T09:47:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/1 "2016-06-10T09:47:56Z")
[Yale English Majors: Stop Teaching Us About White Male Poets.](http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2016/06/02/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets-n2172315) You know, ya just gotta wonder… ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/2 "2016-06-10T09:55:58Z")
… and then they all flunked their graduate thesis for lack of basic familiarity with the cornerstones of western literature. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/3 "2016-06-10T11:20:04Z")
The course is called “Major English Poets”. Maybe the complainers should shuffle over to Comparative Studies of the Dumas, Father and Son, who by American rules could call themselves African-French. Or to “Literature in Arabic”, although I suspect they may also find those poets too white. ---
**Author:** ![Totenfeier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@Totenfeier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Totenfeier)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/4 "2016-06-10T12:21:33Z")
A liberal education used to have as its object the gradual development of an “intellectual aristocracy” that could guide the Nation with wisdom and foresight gained by intensive study of past achievements _and_ failures of humanity (Thomas Jefferson had this in mind with his proposed system of public education). At a “lower” level, such education would produce a population of informed citizens who could maturely consider public issues and vote accordingly. Those who were so inclined would pursue a trade that would benefit their community. The consistent thread running through this vision was that the students were to be turned _outward_ from _themselves_ and _toward_ the greater good of society. This concept of liberal education is now hanging on by its fingernails. It is being replaced by technical training in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (which I have no problem with, by the way, _provided_ that the humanities are _equally_ supported and stressed). Modern education also has as a significant goal the production of extroverted “group participants” who can bring a “dynamic synergy” to their careers as corporate drones servicing the bottom line. Finally, to the subject of the OP, modern education is also about affirming the students’ individual worth to _themselves_. Everything has to be multicultural and inoffensive, lest someone feel “oppressed” and/or “marginalized.” And what is the opposite of being “on the margins”? Why, being at the _center_, of course! To sum up, then: whereas education used to be about preparing to serve a greater and more noble purpose than oneself, it is now about maximizing one’s own self and one’s advantages, in every possible way. Even shorter: It’s now solipsism instead of service. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/5 "2016-06-10T12:50:26Z")
Every time I see a story like this, I become more and more convinced that all the trouble caused in colleges these days is from a group of people that clearly aren’t taking hard enough courses and have way too much time on their hands. I mean, when’s the last time a physicist or a chemist complained about having to learn a bunch of equations first put forth by a bunch of dead white men? Maybe complaining about having to memorize the equations, but not the source. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/6 "2016-06-10T12:57:55Z")
Yeah, it’s time to recognize the great black poets of the 14th-17th centuries, whose greatness was overshadowed by pretenders like Chaucer and Shakespeare and Milton, struggling against the publishers’ color bar. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/7 "2016-06-10T12:59:58Z")
Sorry, the intro course for English Majors really needs to study those guys. Surely later classes can cast a wider net. Although sticking to English-language only is a bit restricting–why have these students chosen such a narrow major? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/8 "2016-06-10T14:03:17Z")
Oh Brother. Now we have to deal, [with this…](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/10/world/europe/period-full-stop-point-whatever-its-called-millennials-arent-using-it.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=mini-moth®ion=top-stories-below&WT.nav=top-stories-below) How long, Oh Lord? How long? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/9 "2016-06-10T14:07:08Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Yeah, it’s time to recognize the great black poets of the 14th-17th centuries, whose greatness was overshadowed by pretenders like Chaucer and Shakespeare and Milton, struggling against the publishers’ color bar. Agreed jtur88. The introductory course sequence is referred to as, “Major English Poets”. Gee, what are these “students”, missing? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/10 "2016-06-10T14:19:22Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Oh Brother. Now we have to deal, [with this…](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/10/world/europe/period-full-stop-point-whatever-its-called-millennials-arent-using-it.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=mini-moth®ion=top-stories-below&WT.nav=top-stories-below) How long, Oh Lord? How long? No white male poet would be caught _dead_ not using periods! ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/11 "2016-06-10T14:35:52Z")
Not to spoil your regularly-scheduled dose of RO at those crazy college kids these days, but the petition doesn’t actually say what the OP says it does. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/12 "2016-06-10T14:40:59Z")
I think the kids may have a point on this one. > [@Chihuahua](#): > > … and then they all flunked their graduate thesis for lack of basic familiarity with the cornerstones of western literature. This is an introductory survey course, right? Not everyone taking it is even going to major in English; for some, this class will help them decide. Anyone writing a literature thesis is necessarily going to have a lot more courses between this and that. > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Sorry, the intro course for English Majors really needs to study those guys. Surely later classes can cast a wider net. English majors certainly need to study all these guys. But isn’t an introductory survey exactly the place to cast the widest net? One class can’t be _sufficient_ to teach “Shakespeare, Chaucer, Milton, and Eliot, among others.” Anyone who does study English literature in depth will be revisiting these figures anyway. What’s the harm in making room for Emily Dickinson or Langston Hughes? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/13 "2016-06-10T14:43:38Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > No white male poet would be caught _dead_ not using periods! [Insert reference to James Joyce here] ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/14 "2016-06-10T14:54:11Z")
During my Yale undergrad days, I had an excellent course called “Poetics of the Late T’ang Dynasty.” The problem was it only included a bunch of Chinese poets from the ninth century. What th’ fuck, man? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/15 "2016-06-10T14:59:08Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > What’s the harm in making room for Emily Dickinson or Langston Hughes? Neither of them are English poets? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/16 "2016-06-10T15:00:44Z")
Aside from the fact that the entire statement is impregnated with PC, I take particular issue with this section: > [@](#): > > Students who continue on after taking the introductory sequence are ill-prepared to take higher-level courses relating to race, gender, sexuality, ethnicity, nationality, ability, or even to engage with critical theory or secondary scholarship. Because we all know that classical poetry has nothing to do with critical theory or secondary scholarship. If you don’t like poetry or want to learn it, you’re not going to take the class anyway. If you do, realize that a classical education includes teaching of classical poets, the overwhelming majority of whom were white males, and deal with it. Poor, poor, pitiful English majors… ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/17 "2016-06-10T15:03:36Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > During my Yale undergrad days, I had an excellent course called “Poetics of the Late T’ang Dynasty.” The problem was it only included a bunch of Chinese poets from the ninth century. What th’ fuck, man? Were they all men? All Han ethnicity? Probably not. You almost certainly studied Li Bai, for example. Maybe even Xue Tao. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/18 "2016-06-10T15:03:39Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Not to spoil your regularly-scheduled dose of RO at those crazy college kids these days, but the petition doesn’t actually say what the OP says it does. Good point. The students just don’t want a Dead White Males course to be a required priority for literary studies. One of my black friends there majored in Caribbean Lit, I studied the Late Romantic period in Europe, and I knew a guy at Stanford who focused solely on the poetry of the First World War. Chaucer wasn’t in the ballpark for any of us. Still, my gut reaction is that soaking up a little Shakespeare and Milton would be good for th’ crazy kids these days. Might even introduce some sort of wacky pleasure into their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/19 "2016-06-10T15:05:13Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Still, my gut reaction is that soaking up a little Shakespeare and Milton would be good for th’ crazy kids these days. Might even introduce some sort of wacky pleasure into their lives. I don’t think the petition is saying that the intro required courses ought not teach any white men. They’re saying that you shouldn’t be able to get through the major without reading some women and people of color. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008/20 "2016-06-10T15:08:56Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I don’t think the petition is saying that the intro required courses ought not teach any white men. They’re saying that you shouldn’t be able to get through the major without reading some women and people of color. I agree with them, but remember that you have to leave somebody out for every author you take in. I love “Goblin Market,” but it ain’t “Paradise Lost.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yale-english-majors-stop-teaching-us-about-white-male-poets/757008.md?page=2)