Ya'll make it seem so much easier than it really is.....

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

Didn’t read all the posts yet, but about two years ago I bought my first stick shift car. I knew how to drive stick, I had probably had about 20 hours behind the wheel so to speak, but is was mostly just here and there (you’re car is stick, can I take it out for a little while).

It took me about two months before I stopped killing the engine at least once a day.

It takes a lot of practice and ALOT of confidence. Your at a red light, cars behind you, cars in front of you, pointed up hill, maybe it’s icy. If the car can smell fear, it’ll promptly turn off.

42

I prefer to drive a stick shift. (Yes, it is a control issue!) My current car is a six speed, and is very fun to drive. FWIW, I learned to drive on an automatic, but only drive them now when forced. :slight_smile:

43

Driving a stick is like learning to ride a bike. Once you get it, you’ll never unlearn it.

I learned when I was 17. That was also when I learned what a PITA my father can be. :wink: I think the first day was just going up and down the driveway (and into mom’s flower garden). The second day was just up and down the cul-de-sac.

By the time I turned 18, I had it down. I then drove until around the age of 22, then I stopped. I didn’t drive again until I was around 31. I was shifting and clutching like an old pro.

44

While I agree starting on a hill is frusterating, I don’t know if I agree with this advice. You might just end up reving the crap out of your car and burning rubber when you let off the clutch. Once you find the friction point, you should be able to (with some practice) hold your car still on a hill without using the brake, and easily start moving forward in a controlled manner.

I learned stick at 16 in a very small town. My SO has insisted that every car we buy be stick - I live in the city now, and my first year or so of driving was intimidating, but as I got used to it, it became much easier and I wouldn’t change back to auto for anything.

45

I’ve only even driven stick-shift cars, and learned to drive pretty easily, but I can sympathise with the OP’s worries. When I was learning, gear-changing was easily the hardest part of the whole thing to get consistently right. I seriously began to wonder if I’d ever learn. As others have said, though, you do, and it becomes second nature (I was going to say “becomes automatic”, but that would be a bad pun). You really don’t think about it at all, and wonder what all that fuss was about.

So, for several years, I drove a variety of cars and vans, and did OK. Then along came an old Simca 1100 (spit) which I had for a year. The synchro mechanisms had pretty much all failed, meaning I had to learn to ‘double-declutch’ the damned thing. My father, who had driven trucks with “crash” - ie no synchro - gearboxes in the Army, gave me a quick primer on the technique, and then it was back to gear-change frustration as I learned how to do it properly.

For those who need an explanation, my understanding is that when you change gear, and engage the new gear, the synchro is the device that matches the speed of rotation of the cogs as they come together, meaning that as you engage the clutch, it all happens smoothly. Without a synchro, this does not happen, so you get the awful grinding and lack of engagement, a bit like trying to change without using the clutch at all. This is not recommended unless buying new gearboxes is a hobby of yours.

Double-declutching is the work-around. What you’re essentially doing is getting the engine side of the gearbox to match the speed of the road-wheels side, putting it crudely, and you do this by controlling the gas and clutch thusly (from old memory, there might be mistakes):

  1. Clutch in
  2. Shift into neutral
  3. Clutch out
  4. Use gas pedal to get engine speed right for new gear (tough bit)
  5. Clutch in
  6. Shift into new gear
  7. Clutch out

That’s seven steps compared to three with a synchro box, and I found it damned tricky to master, especially when shifting down. But, surprise, surprise, after a while I could change gear flawlessly on that damned Simca. After a year, when the Simca finally collapsed in a heap, I bought a normal car and didn’t need to do all that stuff anymore. But … I found I was a much better gear-changer than I had been pre-Simca, because I’d learned the art of precise gas control during a gear change, and could even make shifts like 4 to 2 quickly without the slightest jolt. People would actually comment on my smooth gear changes.

Note that this isn’t boasting - I’ve always been an average driver at best, and would imagine that anyone with a similar experience would have a similar outcome.

After all that, a piggy-back question, which by coincidence cropped up in my mind while I was passenger in a car this afternoon. My ex-wife was driving, and she’s a fine driver (much better than me), but I noticed her doing something that always made me wince: “riding the clutch”. That means, for example, at a junction waiting for a gap, where the roadway’s not level, preventing the car from moving by keeping it in gear and partially engaging the clutch. I would use the handbrake (parking brake) in that situation, and not engage the clutch until I wanted to move. The reason is, because I was told that riding the clutch causes excessive wear on the clutch plates, so never do it! You’ll burn out the clutch in no time!

The question is: is this really still true? I was told that while learning in the 1970s, and cars have changed a lot since then. Is someone who routinely rides the clutch going to get significantly less mileage out of a set of clutch plates than a brake-user like myself? In fact, was it ever true?

46

I just want to say that you know, that feeling of the car trying to jump into the air? With the funny noises it makes?
That’s just it’s way of telling other cars that the driver is learning how to use a stick. It’s normal. And will go away in a while.

47

Yep, you can get them. They are significantly more expensive than for an automatic, or at least they used to be.

I no longer drive a standard, but this is bringing back memories of when I got one. I spent what seemed like a whole weekend going around and around in a parking lot, practicing. In the beginning shifting from first to second was hardest for me, and parking lot practice was good for that.

It really does stay with you too. I hadn’t driven a standard for, geez, eight or so years, until this past year, when I was on a trip in Europe, and renting a manual was so much cheaper than renting an automatic. It really does come back to you right away.

48

I don’t have the time to read all the new posts but I have to say thank you so much to everyone who responded before I went to sleep.

I picked up my car about an hour ago. I drove to the auto parts store and the pharmacy (taking the MAIN road in my town) and then went home. I did not stall once. It was actually pretty smooth. I did have some trouble when I was leaving the dealer though, because my brain still doesn’t make the connection that there is actually an emergency brake and that it does actually get engaged more than once a decade. But, once I got over that, I did great. You guys were an amazing help and I’m so grateful.

I will be able to read the rest of this tomorrow. I’m looking forward to it.

49

This is GREAT advice, and I came in to pust the exact same thing. This should work for nearly any car, and it’s a great way to get the muscle coordination in your left foot to the point where you take off smoothly all the time. Being able to get the car rolling with no gas–just letting the engine idle–is a sign that you are truly one with the clutch. I cannot suggest strongly enough that you work to get good at this skill. It could make for the difference between being able to do drive stick like a clumsy trained monkey, and being able to do it like a confident, competent driver.

That same touch will prove invaluable when you’re starting on hills, because it teaches you just where the friction point is. On a hill, it’s best to get the clutch just to the friction point before you quickly move from brake to gas. The advice upthread about giving “a lot” of gas for a hill start, when given to a newbie, is a good recipe for a barbecued clutch. I find it a lot more sensible to get just to the friction point, which will momentarly reduce or eliminate roll-back while you get to the gas pedal and finish letting the clutch out. It’s not going to add terrible clutch wear if you’re quick and smooth about it, any more than the normally higher levels of torque and slippage necessary for a hill start are bad for your clutch.

50

I can’t see how riding the clutch wouldn’t be bad for it. You’re not fully engaging the plates, or the car would be obligated to proceed forward at the gear ratio you’re in (presumably 1st). If the plates are slipping past each other, their rubbing, and rubbing is wearing.

I love stick. I refused to take an auto when I bought my Matrix in Sept. 06.

Cruise control just works like I’ve seen it in other cars. The computer tries to keep putting in enough gas to keep the same speed, given the gear ratio you’ve given it. Admittedly, it’s stuck with that ratio, but if you can’t select a decent one, then why are you driving stick in the first place?

51

Here’s my advice:

  1. Find a flat driving surface.
  2. Push in the clutch and shift into first.
  3. Forget about the gas pedal altogether.
  4. Just practice on getting the car moving by only letting the clutch out. Believe me, you don’t need to give it gas.
  5. Once you get the feel of how to do this, the rest is a piece of cake. The only relatively tough thing left is starting from a stop when you’re on a relatively steep uphill.
52

I’ll third what jjimm said, except to note that with a really solid clutch (and on flat ground), your car might not even stall without using gas. My tiny Saturn SC2 engine goes fine from a standstill into first rolling gear without complaining, and won’t stall itself out. I do this when I’m in traffic and just need to roll forward slowly for awhile, or when I’m just goofing off. It’s been a bit since I’ve driven it, but if I recall correctly I can even get it into second without using gas. So if you’ve got a new car it should hopefully have a tight clutch and should work the same way. It unfortunately wasn’t the same for me when I learned, and had to deal with either stalling or revving the engine waaay too high, but since gettting my car I’ve always wished I had a car that I could have concentrated on just one leg first.

A note about hill starts is that you can use the e-brake, and it may be helpful when you’re learning, but once you start to get the hang of it it shouldn’t be necessary except on the steepest hills (maybe upstate NY qualifies, but I was thinking more like SF). You can let the clutch out to the friction point while your foot is on the regular brake (and the e-brake is off) and it will have much the same effect. If you’ve got it right, the car shouldn’t roll backwards (or hardly at all, if you’re on something really steep) when you release the brake.

Anyway, sounds like you’re doing really well, so keep at it! I think it’s much more fun to drive a stick than an automatic, and there are at least 2 occasions I can recall where I more than likely would have had a collision had I been driving an automatic. Plus, they function much much better in snow, and we nawthaners need all the helpful tools we can use when it snows sometimes.

53

Sorry, missed the edit window, but:

Oh, and just to join in on the “I stalled the crap out of cars when I first learned,” I stalled the crap out of cars when I first learned. I started on my dad’s Toyota, but got most practice on my ex’s tiny Honda Civic hatchback. Even after I’d been relatively comfortable for a bit, I still stalled either randomly, or when the terrain changed a bit. Like a trip up a mountain, even when it was relatively flat, I still stalled it.

And once I borrowed the Toyota, and was in traffic without really being comfortable. I was trying to merge into the right lane for a turn without stalling, so I had the clutch in, and since I was concentrating on so many things I was pretty much staring at my blind spot. When I finally did look back the car in front of me had stopped to make a left. I squealed the tires a bit on that occasion, stalled the engine, and then drove the car home and told my dad I didn’t actually want to borrow the car that day :slight_smile:

54

I haven’t had a standard in a few years, but I learned back in high school. My parent’s directions didn’t click with me and I stalled alot. They had a 1960-something Chevy with “three on the tree”

My friend let me drive her even older VW bug a few times and the different feel of the clutch helped me figure it out.

So if practicing on your car doesn’t work as well as you like, see if you can borrow someone else’s car to feel the difference in the clutch.

My first car I bought was a Geo Storm, standard transmission. I loved that car.

55

My advice…

Once you’ve had a couple of lessons, and you’re at the “fuck this! I’ll never get it!” stage (knowing the theory but not having a feel for it), try and find a good friend who will let you practice on his/her car ALONE somewhere. You’ll pick it up easier.

Jjimm, I spent a couple of years as a teenager knowing only how to drive an automatic. I didn’t have a clue what gear the car was in. After years of driving manual, I now own an automatic again, and it’s blindingly obvious (I also drive it like a manual a bit too though).

56

Agree with jjimm…no gas, just get the feel for where the clutch starts moving the car, don’t try to use any gas at all.

I didn’t think they’d install an auto starter on a shift. I usually leave mine in neutral with the parking brake on, so it would work for me. BUT if I parked a lot in a hilly places like San Fran, I might leave it in gear as extra protection. Forget just once…

Here’s a tidbit you MT-philes might not have considered:

When I moved, I towed my 5 speed with a Ryder truck and dolly. This was the sort that elevates the front wheels off the ground while the back wheels roll. The directions said to put the car in “Park,” which of course I couldn’t.

I wondered: if I put on the parking brake, would that either burn it up while the back wheels rolled or would it wear the tires flat as they dragged? But if I didn’t, would I run the risk of the car rolling off the dolly (backward)?

Turns out the solution is: parking brake off, gearshift in first. And don’t stop fast.

57

Yay! I’m so glad you are getting the hang of it. Pretty soon, you won’t even remember what it was like NOT to be able to do it!

I am jealous…I had to give up a stick shift years ago, due to a back injury I have. Driving has not been the same since. :mad:

58

In 2005 I bought a car with a stick for the first time in 20 years. I’m not ashamed to admit that for months I only drove in two speeds – lurching and lugging.

Eventually you’ll learn to ignore the little arrow that lights up, the speedometer, tachometer and everything else, and just know when it’s time to shift.

59

I think a lot of the problem is that the concept of gearing isn’t as obvious and intuitive as the concept of say, acceleration and braking. It needs to be explained if the person doesn’t already understand the principles.

There’s a definite case for the first lesson actually being a theory one:

“The car likes to provide a certain narrow range of power regardless of whether you’re pulling a trailer up a standing start on a steep hill, or cruising on the freeway. First gear is mondo power and low speed, top gear is high speed and low power, and the others are graduations. This comes naturally to you when you walk - if you’e pushing a heavy trolley from a standing start to a proper walking pace, you start off with small, powerful steps and progress to long strides. Try sprinting by taking long strides from the beginning - you’ll get there, but slowly. Try going fast with small, walkiing steps, and you’ll waste energy and not get there.”

At least, that’s how I’ve done it. I’ve found it easier to teach people to manually shift if they understand what it is they’re trying to do.

60

I think that’s the right term - when you don’t shift when you need to so the car makes a really loud noise, suitable for scaring lollygagging, jaywalking teeny-agers. Um, probably not recommended by law enforcement professionals. Or mechanics.

Another trick for you, Congodwarf - if you are well and truly stuck and can’t get it going because of a hill or a tight parking space, rest your car on the bumper of the car behind you or a parking rail or something and go from there. You probably wouldn’t do this in traffic (you’d probably need to get permission from the guy behind you), but I’ve had to do this in incredibly wonky parking spots occasionally. When I say rest, I mean very gently let your car touch the other car - it doesn’t do any damage.

kunilou is absolutely right - you get to know when to shift when it feels right. It’s kind of a pain in town here that the speed limits on most of the roads are right between first and second in my car - I’m always a little up or a little down if I’m going the limit. If it makes you feel better, my husband and I are both very experienced stick drivers, and we still dump it occasionally. It happens.