# Yankee Doodle Dandy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 11, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle-dandy/352168 "2006-04-11T00:43:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ralph\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Ralph\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ralph_C)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle-dandy/352168/1 "2006-04-11T00:43:02Z")
A recent HBO special “Assume the Position with Robert Wuhl” argued that the Macaroni in this tune referred to a gay social club in London (thus the insult to the Americans). This is not in the Straight Dope review of this tune. Any thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle-dandy/352168/2 "2006-04-11T02:14:24Z")
_Maccaronis_ were certainly a British social group in the Colonial days, but the evidence that they were “gay” is arguable. They were certainly “fops” and “dandies.” From the OED: > [@](#): > > 1. A dandy or fop; spec. (in the second half of the 18th cent.) a member of a set of young men who had travelled in Europe and extravagantly imitated Continental tastes and fashions. Also in extended use. Now hist. > [This use seems to be from the name of the Macaroni Club, a designation prob. adopted to indicate the preference of the members for foreign cookery, macaroni being at that time little eaten in England. There appears to be no connection with the extended use of Italian maccherone in the senses ‘blockhead, fool, mountebank’ (cf. MACAROON n. 3), referred to in 1711 by Addison Spectator 24 Apr. 178/2: Those circumforaneous Wits whom every Nation calls by the name of that Dish of Meat which it loves best:…in Italy, Maccaronies.] > > [1764 H. WALPOLE Let. to Earl of Hertford 6 Feb. (1857) IV. 178 The Maccaroni Club (which is composed of all the travelled young men who wear long curls and spying-glasses).] 1764 H. WALPOLE Let. Earl Hertford 27 May (1857) IV. 238 Lady Falkener’s daughter is to be married to a young rich Mr. Crewe, a Macarone, and of our Loo. 1770 Oxf. Mag. June 228/2 There is indeed a kind of animal, neither male nor female, a thing of the neuter gender, lately started up amongst us. It is called a Macaroni. It talks without meaning, it smiles without pleasantry, it eats without appetite, it rides without exercise, it wenches without passion. 1773 R. HITCHCOCK Macaroni I. 5, I wanted you to be a man of spirit; your ambition was to appear a first-rate Macaroni; you are returned fully qualified, and determined, I see, to shew the world what a contemptible creature an English~man dwindles into, when he adopts the follies and vices of other nations. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle-dandy/352168/3 "2006-04-11T02:25:25Z")
Mr. Wuhl took several liberties with facts. He related the whole Pluck Yew story also which has been thouroughly debunked by many. But at least that one he said “Is it true, who cares, it is a great story …” Jim ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle-dandy/352168/4 "2006-04-11T12:00:30Z")
Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Board, **Ralph C** , we’re glad to have you with us. When you start a thread, it’s helpful to other readers (saves search time) to provide a link to the Staff Report or column you’re discussing. In this case, [Straight Dope Staff Report: What’s the song “Yankee Doodle” all about?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/myankeedoodle.html) No biggie, you’ll know for next time. And, as I say, welcome. Since I wrote the Staff Report, I can also say that I didn’t find any reference to macaronis being gay (at least, not in the sense of homosexual – gay in the sense of living a dandified, foppish life-style, sure.) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle-dandy/352168/5 "2006-04-13T11:31:40Z")
> [@Ralph C.](#): > > this tune referred to a gay social club in London (thus the insult to the Americans). This is not in the Straight Dope review of this tune. Yes it is. **" In the early 1700s, the term “macaroni” was applied derisively to English dandies who affected foreign mannerisms and fashions, particularly French or Italian, which most British regarded as outlandish. Associating the term with the American colonists was a double insult. Not only were the Yankees putting on airs, they thought the way to do it was to put feathers in their caps, the rubes! "** ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle-dandy/352168/6 "2006-04-13T12:50:46Z")
**Peter** , I think the missing link here is **Ralph C** ’s statement that the club was “gay.” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle-dandy/352168/7 "2006-04-13T13:05:02Z")
Yeah, but, as one theory has it, “Yankee” comes from “Jahn Caes” = “Johnny Cheese”, and, as we all know from the Civil War song “When Johnny Comes Marching Home”: > [@](#): > > The men will cheer and the boys will shout > The ladies they will all turn out > And we’ll all feel **gay** , > When Johnny comes marching home [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When\_Johnny\_Comes\_Marching\_Home](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Johnny_Comes_Marching_Home) (Bolding mine) … ---
**Author:** ![chefdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@chefdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chefdave)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle-dandy/352168/8 "2006-04-19T03:12:16Z")
Enough with all the gay stuff, entertaining as it is! I want to know about London and "the " pony’s, (I always thought it was “A” pony). In the flick with James Cagney he makes those distinctions, very directly. I shall start my own great search, and will inform, if not too boring. I’ve had this site as a fav for a couple of years, and now I respond? Go figure. Dave