# Yankee Doodle **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [January 4, 2001, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle/48419 "2001-01-04T17:03:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle/48419/1 "2001-01-04T17:03:23Z")
Dex didn’t mention that the term Yankee was originally an ethnic slur directed against the Dutch descendants of New Amsterdam. Apparently many of the Dutch were named Jan Kees, Jan being pronounced yan. Jan is the Dutch form of John. Obviously, the English colonists ,never mind the Dutch, at large would be quite incensed by constantly being slurred in song by the British. Today in South Africa, the Dutch descendants are referred to as Yannies by the English descendants. I don’t know how true it is but the term “dutch” was originally used as a slur against the northern residents of the low countries on the Rhine delta. These people did not like to be referred to as german or deutche,but ever since the humiliation of the English Navy by the Dutch Admiral deRuyter boldly entering the Thames estuary and capturing the flagship the Royal Charles in the 17th century, the English had no love for the Netherlanders. Just a reminder how ethnic slurs have entered the lexicon and losing the origin of the intent of their meaning. * * * Link to Staff Report: [What’s the song ‘Yankee Doodle’ all about?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/myankeedoodle.html) – CKDH [Edited by C K Dexter Haven on 01-04-2001 at 01:06 PM] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle/48419/2 "2001-01-04T17:11:22Z")
I would have posted in the other thread if it was there before I started. Moderator, any chance in moving this post/thread over? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle/48419/3 "2001-01-04T17:37:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Yankee is an excellent example of a widely known word whose origins cannot be determined. The best hypothesis is that Yankee comes from Dutch Janke, a nickname for Jan, “John.” Evidence can be found in the Oxford English Dictionary that the forms Yankey, Yanky, and Yankee were used as surnames or nicknames in the 17th century. The word Yankee is first found in one of our modern senses in 1758, the sense being “a New Englander.” The 17th-century nickname for Jan was derisive, and the first instances of our word show the term being used derisively by the British for New Englanders. After the Battle of Lexington (1775) New Englanders dignified the name. The British were responsible for application of the term to all Americans (a use first recorded around 1784); and Southerners, for application of the term to Northerners (first recorded in 1817). _The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition_. 1992, Houghton Mifflin Company. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle/48419/4 "2001-01-05T10:08:17Z")
grienspace, Perhaps you missed the link in the third paragraph of the Staff Report. In it, Dex links us to Cecil’s column, [What is the origin of the word “Yankee”?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_260.html) In Cecil’s column, he explains: > [@](#): > > The origins of “Yankee” have been fiercely debated throughout the history of the Republic, and to this day the Oxford English Dictionary says the source of the word is “unascertained.” Perhaps the most widely accepted explanation was advanced by H.L. Mencken, the well-known newsman-scholar (and don’t tell me that isn’t an unusual combination), who argued that Yankee derives from the expression Jan Kaas, literally “John Cheese.” This supposedly was a derogatory nickname bestowed on the Dutch by the Germans and the Flemish in the 1600s. (Wisconsin cheeseheads can undoubtedly relate.) Obviously Dex didn’t explain the history of the word “Yankee” because Cecil had already covered it. ---
**Author:** ![spaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@spaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spaz)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle/48419/5 "2001-01-05T16:04:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Billdo \* > \*\*grienspace, > > Perhaps you missed the link in the third paragraph of the Staff Report. In it, Dex links us to Cecil’s column, [What is the origin of the word “Yankee”?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_260.html) > > In Cecil’s column, he explains: > > > [@](#): > > > > The origins of “Yankee” have been fiercely debated throughout the history of the Republic, and to this day the Oxford English Dictionary says the source of the word is “unascertained.” Perhaps the most widely accepted explanation was advanced by H.L. Mencken, the well-known newsman-scholar (and don’t tell me that isn’t an unusual combination), who argued that Yankee derives from the expression Jan Kaas, literally “John Cheese.” This supposedly was a derogatory nickname bestowed on the Dutch by the Germans and the Flemish in the 1600s. (Wisconsin cheeseheads can undoubtedly relate.) > > Obviously Dex didn’t explain the history of the word “Yankee” because Cecil had already covered it. \*\* Here’s a Monty Python angle. John Cleese’s family name was changed from Cheese to Cleese before his birth. Thus his name could have been “John Cheese”. ---
**Author:** ![jesternl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@jesternl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jesternl)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2001, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-doodle/48419/6 "2001-01-09T13:37:52Z")
As far as I know the word Doodle also comes from the Dutch, originally **Doedel** , almost always used as **Jan Doedel** , which is an oldfashioned expression for a lazy person. I have a book about this subject, called (By heart) “An American tune” When I get home again I’ll look up the author. it’s about the origins of the term, but also about the wa with the French at the time, very intersting reading.