How many people saw news footage about Peace Talks in the Middle East in which Yasser Arafat and Ehud Barak became “physically involved” over who should go through a door first? These people were completely and utterly deranged about who should be the “recipient of politeness” and who should be accepting it. Is this like the potlatch of the Kwakuitl indians? The prestige of the Kwakuitl chiefs was judged by how many things they gave away. Ordinary everyday western people act like this all the time and no one comments on it. Why? Is potlatch a modern day phenomenon that no one likes to admit exists?
Sorry - too much Southern Comfort. I mean who should be the RECIPIENT of politeness and who should be GIVING IT.
I saw that. I thought they were just joking around. Clinton was standing inside the door laughing at them.
I don’t think they were joking. But my point of view can seem quite odd. I notice a lot that people are quite superstitious about accepting presents. I once saw a documentary on the Glastonbury rock festival in England in which the commentator/interviewer guy spent an hour trying to give away a book to stars he interviewed. In the end Brett Anderson from Suede accepted it - but that was after it was offered to a million other people. Sex is obviously left out of this equation.
G.Nome wrote:
I once saw a ‘hidden camera’ type program in which at one point, they set up a table in a mall with a sign saying something like “Free Money, Take what you want” or something (i saw this a couple years ago). Only one or two people took any money, and they only took one or two bills! That has to be one of the funniest/weirdest things I saw on TV. Why didn’t they try this with me? 
It is not only an Eastern phenonenon. A long time ago I visited UN in Geneva, Switzerland, on a guided tour. They showed us the ‘original’ council chamber, where lots of the cold war summet meetings were held. There were two doors, so that the US and USSR delegations could enter at the same time!
—After you, my dear Alphonse.
—No, after you, my dear Gaston.
An Irish friend of mine described an Irish ritual that sounds similar. Irish dopers, please forgive me if I’m mistaken…the story came directly from him. He was born and lived in Dublin until just a few years ago, so I figure he knows whatof he speaks, but who knows.
He told me about this hilarious “offer of tea” ceremony that He claims can go on for a lengthy period of time.
“Oh, how nice to see you! Let me fix you a spot of tea.”
“Oh no, I couldn’t possibly!”
“Oh gowan, gowan (go on, with a cute Irish accent). Have some tea!”
"Oh no, I couldn’t trouble you for tea.
“Gowan, gowan! I’ll make you up some tea.”
“No no, don’t go to the trouble on my account.”
And so on. His version of the story indicated that the person who finally backs down is an impolite jughead.
Of course, he could have been just pulling my leg.
-L
When i worked in the bar trade, there were a couple of regular patrons of southern european extraction. When it came to buying a round of drinks, they would almost come to blows over who would get the privilege of paying!
But I never noticed the same trait in people from an english speaking background. So I assumed it was a cultural thing - much like the asian preoccupation of not losing one’s dignity despite the circumstances.
The Japanese have this down to a fine art. The invitee to a home, receives a present from the host. The one given to the host must not be more extravagant than the one received by the guest.
When it’s a boss-employee exchange, this gets more complicated than Martha Stewart’s instructions on wheelbarrow maintenance.
If I am right, this is meant as an allusion to the BBC television series Father Ted, where the housekeeper (Mrs Doyle) who is rather persistant in her offer of tea…
You’ve obviously never seen the members of my family fighting over who would pick up the check for dinner. We do try to use more devious and underhanded means, like bribing the waiter before dinner, before actually throwing punches.
I’ve learned I’m on my own for this, though. Mr. Legend thinks it’s funny and will actually let my aged mother pay for a meal.
I’m still not sure what the OP question is ~ but note that the potlatch was very much an economic tradition, and not the “cultural politeness” most of this string is alluding to.
And, no, I did not see the footage (sheepish grin) but I’d be happy to answer any questions I can about Kwakiutl, and other, potlatch traditions.
S
I remember that footage well, and yes, I think they could very well have walked off (or come to blows) if the struggle had continued. I think this is a diplomatic protocol issue, or else each man wanted to look less eager to negotiate than the other. Clinton laughed in order to make light of the situation, then he grabbed both of them around the shoulders and dragged them in together. Fortunately, Americans only vote for giants for president.
Funny you should mention that. G. Nome, in one sentence, what is the General Question here?
Well, there are four question marks to choose from but if you want to close the thread go ahead. I’d really like to thank k.os for sending the thread through a wormhole from the BBQ Pit. It’s an old thread which I retrieved for Spoofe’s thread called Thought Some of You Might Like This. The new replies are great. Thank you especially to saoirse who corrobated the existence of the film clip. I got such a lot of flak last year for Yasser Arafat and the Door Thing. This is all so refreshing.