Not at all. Where did you get that? I said nothing about them controlling the child. Even so, the child never came onto your property, unlike the cats in Thespos’ situation. Totally different scenario.
As noted above, she has a legal right not to be threatened. And if you say this to a child :
Hi Sally, how are you doing? You know what happens to little girls that talk to strangers through a fence? It angers the strangers. Then, eventually, the stranger gets so angry he sneaks into your house and kills both your parents. And when they are dead, they arent sleeping or watching over you from the clouds in heaven. They are rotting in the ground with the worms eating them just like they are eating your grandparents who died last years. Then, because your parents are dead, the police come and kick you out of the house, so you have to go live in the woods. During the day you have keep running or the bears will catch you and eat you. During the night, you have to stay awake and keep swatting the bats away or they will bite your neck and suck your blood out. So, Sally, it might be best if you never talked to me again.
Then fuck yes you’re threatening her. Only an idiot would think otherwise. You would be lucky if the only thing that happened to you was a visit from the police.
If it helps, you may pass this link along - WARNING! PDF. It is a rather comprehensive demonstration that feral cats pose significant problems (including for the cats themselves) that you may feel perfectly justified in not ignoring or accepting. Also detailed information showing that TNR does not reduce cat populations.
TNR does reduce cat populations. That’s inarguable, since the cats in question cannot reproduce themselves. The problem is that people dump MORE cats, knowing it’s a supported colony, because they think it’s OK to release their unwanted cats in a place where they will be fed. Also, some of the cats can’t be trapped, apparently, if the colony is large enough. That is clearly not the case in this particular situation. There seems to be a stable population of a handful of cats who are already being cared for by the OP’s neighbor. If those few cats were neutered and vaccinated, they would not be a huge disease risk, nor would they expand the colony in question. One hopes the OP’s neighbor is a reasonable enough person to see that TNR is a humane, fair approach to her colony, and looks into it, if she hasn’t already.
That said, I do wish people would keep their cats away from the native bird and wildlife populations, but that’s a whole 'nother Pit thread, and well covered territory here.
But you’re essentially telling her that if she doesn’t leave you alone, you’re going to kill her parents. How is that not a threat?
And how is it even remotely comparable to Halloween or haunted houses? If someone were using a haunted house or some scary venue as a way to threaten a kid, couldn’t that be considered illegal?
Telling her that talking to strangers will get her parents killed, her home repossessed, and herself eaten by bears, and then warning her not to talk to you, a stranger, is a threat. If you can’t see that, you’re an ignorant idiot. Hauntrd houses have piss-all to do with it.
Is there a zoo anywhere near you. If there was you could try to get some lion piss. I’ve heard some of that sprayed in an area means that the little buggers stay very far away.
Can we not make this seem like a city vs. country thing? I’ve spent more time as a country bumpkin (having grown up in a much more rural area of Long Island) than I have as a city boy (around a decade on the Upper East Side in Manhattan). I’m aware of what comes with the territory. Even when living in the sticks, neighbors were respectful of one anothers’ property rights. (Occasionally, the family dog would manage to get out of the yard and roam the neighborhood - and we expected to get complaints when it did.)
I guess what it comes down to is what one might consider a minor inconvenience versus a major one. I happen to think the cats are a nuisance, especially after this latest display of messing with my camper. Different strokes for different folks. I consider it a victory that I’m hopefully working through it with my neighbor in a friendly way rather than simply breaking out the poisons or the pellet guns or whatever. Thankfully, I got a much better response to voicing my annoyance than I thought I would get.
This caused me to remember watching Aliens this weekend, and in addition gave me a bizarre mental image of cats reproducing like the aliens - complete with an egg-laying queen cat. The ones which jump out and startle you are obviously the soldier-workers hunting for human prey.
It is inarguable only in that it is not supported by the facts. Numerous long term studies make it clear despite repeated assertions to the contrary. TNR colonies maintain themselves through time. One in Key Largo, FL has a full time veterinarian and numbers of paid and unpaid care givers. It’s on an island for crying out loud, in the middle of a mangrove estuary, which if nothing else should drastically reduce recruitement by dumping. The paid staff are diligent in their efforts to trap, and to provide care. It should be the poster child for TNR, and if reduction by attrition was going to happen anywhere, it ought to happen here. And yet the colony has remained at 500 cats for 15 years now. I won’t cite multiple additional instances demonstrating the same reality.
If what you meant to say is “these individual cats, if neutered, will eventually be reduced by attrition” you would be correct, but the OP seems entitled to be less patient than waiting for relief throughout the life expectancy of several cats.
But then you knew that already, because you go on to say:
If they can all be trapped (hint, hint, nudge nudge) then they can all be removed. Or they can be formally “claimed” by the neighbor, and kept inside her house or enclosed within her own nice, newly constructed cat habitat in her very own yard. That would be “fair” to the OP.
Yes, TNR is perfectly “fair” to the neighbor woman, who merely wants the psychological lift she gets from “helping” these animals. But it isn’t humane, since street cats, even if neutered and sporadically vaccinated for certain diseases, are totally unprotected from other diseases as well as from nasty kids with rocks, brutal neighbors (the OP is clearly NOT one-- but recall recent headlines of the Miami cat killer, among other less ambitious human monsters) and the number one maimer and ultimate killer of outdoor cats, the automobile.
And as noted above, TNR isn’t nearly as “fair” to the OP.
I read your article and discussed the reasons given why the populations remained steady: bad human behavior. People keep dumping the animals. The neutered cats? They don’t reproduce themselves. So don’t blame the cats, or the TNR program, when it’s the idiotic people who keep these colonies the size they are.
I wish you would offer a reason, besides human malfeasance, why a population of neutered cats is reproducing itself. It’s like magic!
Yeah, maybe I fail to see the urgency in getting rid of neutered, vaccinated cats who can be scared away pretty easily by a garden hose or super soaker. I would understand if the cats were reproducing and/or disease-ridden, but if they’re not, then basically they are the neighbor’s outdoor only pets. You and I agree about outdoor cats being a bad idea, but surely you realize that many people disagree with us, and sadly, they are within their rights to do so.
The problem is, it’s not illegal to have outdoor cats. The OP cannot force his neighbor to keep her cats indoors. That’s just the way it is.
You can’t always get what you want. When you live in close proximity to other humans, unless you are a giant primadonna crybaby, you have to compromise or frankly, you’re an asshole. I’d say neutering the cats and vaccinating them effectively removes most of the salient objections the OP can reasonably push on his neighbors. Then, he can make non-lethal efforts to keep them off his property, and live with it. Or, he can continue to insist on things being 100% his way, and have neighbors who hate him. I know what I’d choose, and I personally have strong objections to outdoor cats.
Clawing the insulation / hoses / wiring / etc from the underside of his RV is not something I believe he should be bound to accept. Nor is the responsibility for keeping marauding kitties off his property fairly his. His neighbor chooses to maintain a nuisance that she could abate by removing or confining the cats. If there is an asshole here, it surely isn’t the OP. He already HAS compromised significantly by not trapping the cats and sending them to whatever Animal Control agency exists.
Regarding humans creating the problem by dumping cats, I agree as far as that goes. But TNR colonies are not sustained entirely by recruits from outside. Virtually all colonies large enough to deserve that descriptor (and the OP’s situation hardly rises to the level of a “colony”) have numerous cats too wily and too fearful to be trapped. These are never neutered. No magic to this kind of reproduction at all, so let’s not make silly statements. Similarly, cats trapped once are much much harder to ever trap again, making keeping vaccinations current (even those few vaccines chosen for use) next to impossible for almost all the cats in the colony. Thus disease remains a significant problem, frequently causing much real suffering.
Really, TNR is a sop to the caregivers and their sensibilities, not any real benefit to the cats. Their lives continue to be nasty and (compared to indoor cats) quite painful and short. Colonies merely give other people the ability to dodge their own responsibilities by dumping unwanted animals into a “better” environment. No, it would be “better” if everybody understood that extra cats would be euthanized. Then people wouldn’t perhaps be so willing to let them breed because “they’re so cute, we can always find a home for them and, if not, there’s that colony down the street where they get shots and get fed!”.
(My oldest cat right now was born in 1990. He came from an unattended cardboard box outside the supermarket labelled Free to Good Home. Since that day when he was perhaps 4 weeks old, he has been an indoor cat.)
In some places the owners of animals could be forced to keep them, if not indoors, at least on the owner’s property. In my county we had similar issues with free-ranging pets. Being Florida, these were not necessarily restricted to dogs and cats but might include someone’s llama or python. So our County Commission adopted an ordinance requiring that all “owned animals” remain on their owner’s property unless the animals were “leashed, confined, or otherwise under direct physical control”. Now people do not have to keep their roaming animals home, but every time Animal Control collects one, the owner pays a hefty fee for its return. And the fees escalate with additional offenses.
So if neighbor lady wants to claim these cats as her own, she can do so and (at least here) be required to keep them on her own place. Otherwise, they can and should be trapped and removed.
This is rather bizarre behavior IMO and I am a bit skeptical about it, to be honest. It gets a :dubious: from me.
You scold me for silliness but you characterize kitties as “marauding.” Like I said earlier, keeping the peace with a long-term neighbor might require one to do things one might prefer not to have to do. Shooting a cat with water is not an onerous task if you want to get rid of it.
You’d rather have him go through the trouble of acquiring humane traps (not cheap), catching the cats, and transporting them, than have him shoot them with a super soaker? Thus alienating his neighbors? I don’t get it.
Exactly. So why are we discussing cat colonies? A TNR would effectively end this group of cats by attrition. What’s the problem?
I agree that feral cats are a problem because people are negligent and stupid. We are on the same page. I volunteer at the local shelter and I’m well aware of the number of unwanted cats who need homes who ARE friendly, unlike the ferals. All my cats are indoor cats and always will be. That said, the OP’s neighbor cats do not sound like untameable ferals, just permanently outdoor cats. I might be wrong about this.
And in some places, like where I live, it’s perfectly legal to have outdoor cats. I strongly object to it, but people do it. There’s nothing you can really do about it. Not sure what the laws are where the OP lives, might be worth him looking into. Either way, I doubt the neighbor lady is going to be OK with her cats being destroyed. The OP would be reasonable to demand that the cats be neutered and vaccinated, effectively making them the neighbor lady’s pets, but beyond that, he’s looking at trouble with the neighbors. You can stand on the moral high ground and look down on her all you want, but the OP has to live next to her, possibly for a long time. He should seek compromise for the sake of his own peace. You never know when he’s going to need the neighbors’ forbearance for something, and they may be less inclined to give it if he pisses them off this time.
If they are truly damaging his property, then he should show them the repair bills and talk to them about it. Thus far, he has been reticent to do so and has resorted to bitching about it on the internet. If it were really such a problem, why hasn’t he TALKED to them about it?
They don’t even know there’s a problem! So the same isn’t true for them until they are asked, and refuse, to compromise. Because they were there first, and he’s talking about destroying their pets. A conversation is warranted, and it’s up to him to initiate it, because they aren’t psychic.
No, they don’t. They like to claw trees and shrubs, and do like to dig in the dirt, and so might mess up your flower beds and garden, but that’s not the same thing, is it? It’s certainly not the same as going out of their way to claw a freakin’ RV.
Indoor cats want to shuck off the outer layer of their claws and mark their territory, but can’t do it on natural objects, like trees, so they use people’s furniture. Scratching posts mimic the texture of more natural objects, attracting the cats to claw them rather than the furniture. Outdoor cats have less reason to claw people’s things because they have actual, natural territory to mark. Generally they mark it, not people’s stuff, when they have the option. Hence my skepticism that they would choose to mess with an RV, when they have access the whole wide world of natural objects, towards which they would be more inclined. Fucking with people’s stuff is the hallmark of a bored, frustrated indoor cat whose natural impulses are redirected towards annoying, destructive behavior. See what I mean?
