# Year Ago Today Bush Re-Elected: Happy Now Assholes? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134 "2005-11-02T19:09:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/181 "2005-11-03T06:51:56Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Yeah, and things changed. Bush has done significantly more to overhaul the anti-terrorism activities after 9/11 than Clinton ever did. That’s because Clinton wasn’t president after 9/11, doofus. But isn’t it a shame that, had President Bush’s team not ignored Richard Clarke, we wouldn’t have had 9/11 and therefore wouldn’t be fighting a war in Iraq? (See? Straw men work both ways. Isn’t that fun?) > [@](#): > > That’s why it’s ridiculous you’re arguing this. History itself forced Bush to become the President that has done the most thus far to combat terrorism, simple facts of history forcing ALL of our hands. Except he hasn’t. He totally dismantled the team put together by President Clinton and VP Gore in order to fight terrorism in general and al Qaida specifically. He made up his own facts to bring about a war he wanted and ever since, has ignored al Qaida except as a shiny thing to dangle in front of everyone’s eyes. bin Laden is still at large, al Qaida continues its activities, and we have more terrorist activity in Iraq than when we got there. Yup. Mission accomplished. > [@](#): > > To the rest of you posting here, we’ve obviously got a “pile on” going on and I don’t have the stamina to reply to all of your points. YAY us! We win the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/182 "2005-11-03T06:55:53Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I don’t even know what to say to this, it boggles my mind. You forgot the best part: > [@Martin Hyde](#): > > The President isn’t acting above the law when he lies (well, depending on how he does it.) Legally speaking yes, there are situations where the President lying would be perjury or some other crime, but in the context I’m talking about that wouldn’t be an issue. See in certain circumstances _coughBLOWJOBcough_ it’s not okay. He thought of everything. ---
**Author:** ![beckwall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@beckwall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beckwall)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/183 "2005-11-03T06:57:03Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Do I have to add “WHy do you hate America?” or an emoticon for people to make realize I’m doing a conservative spoof? Granted not much of a spoof. I hear that kind of shit every time some soldier says Iraq is going less then well. You’re coming in loud and clear. I think. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/184 "2005-11-03T06:58:46Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > That’s because Clinton wasn’t president after 9/11, doofus. But isn’t it a shame that, had President Bush’s team not ignored Richard Clarke, we wouldn’t have had 9/11 and therefore wouldn’t be fighting a war in Iraq? (See? Straw men work both ways. Isn’t that fun?) > Except he hasn’t. He totally dismantled the team put together by President Clinton and VP Gore in order to fight terrorism in general and al Qaida specifically. He made up his own facts to bring about a war he wanted and ever since, has ignored al Qaida except as a shiny thing to dangle in front of everyone’s eyes. bin Laden is still at large, al Qaida continues its activities, and we have more terrorist activity in Iraq than when we got there. Yup. Mission accomplished. > YAY us! We win the internet. I’m not here to win or lose, I’m just here to talk about things. Honestly there’s no point in me continually making the same argument over and over. I’ve said my piece and basically I don’t find any of your arguments particularly valid or compelling, at a certain point I just need to stop replying because you’re going to throw a million different variants of the same BS at me until I die of attrition. I don’t play that game. I don’t feel there is any shame in bowing out of a thread on my own terms. You can feel what you want. But this isn’t my life, it’s just a message board. I’m not losing sleep over you thinking you’ve “won.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/185 "2005-11-03T07:15:57Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > I’m not here to win or lose, I’m just here to talk about things. Honestly there’s no point in me continually making the same argument over and over. I’ve said my piece and basically I don’t find any of your arguments particularly valid or compelling, at a certain point I just need to stop replying because you’re going to throw a million different variants of the same BS at me until I die of attrition. I don’t play that game. I don’t feel there is any shame in bowing out of a thread on my own terms. > > You can feel what you want. > > But this isn’t my life, it’s just a message board. I’m not losing sleep over you thinking you’ve “won.” Does this mean we don’t get any support from this statement you made in post #162? > [@Martin Hyde](#): > > To answer the question would require me to accept your argument that Iraq was no threat to us, since I don’t accept that I have no answer. The converse of that is that you accept that Iraq was a threat to us. This is the kind of assertion that I tend to think of as _demanding_ evidence-based support. But if you’re honorably bowing out of the thread, I guess we’ll have to be faster on the draw with a request for a cite the next time you make it. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/186 "2005-11-03T07:18:30Z")
Iraq was a **major** threat to us. Sadaam could’ve thrown sand in our eyes. Do you have _any_ idea how much that stings? And you wonder why Liberals are viewed as being weak on defense? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/187 "2005-11-03T07:26:11Z")
Not to nit-pick with you, **Finn** , but he definitely had sand. Vast stockpiles of sand. We even knew where it was, somewhere “west, south, north and east of Baghdad”. Lots of it. ---
**Author:** ![Exploding\_Kitchen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Exploding\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exploding_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/188 "2005-11-03T07:50:53Z")
**MartinHyde** , apparently your beliefs on Realism are slightly…skewed, and don’t particularly match up to what a true realist would believe. If you take the writings from the Realist trinity of Thucydides, Morgenthau, and Machiavelli as canon, Bush royally screwed the pooch. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/189 "2005-11-03T09:13:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Latest CBS poll has him pegged at 35% which is ding!ding!ding!.. a new low! > [@Scylla](#): > > Interesting. Did you know that that is the highest trough rating of any of the last seven sitting Presidents? **Scylla** , could you explain what you mean by that, and provide a cite? Because if you mean that Bush’s 35% approval rating is **higher** than the **lowest** approval rating for any recent president, that doesn’t seem to be true at all, AFAICT. For example, [Clinton’s trough rating was 43%](http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90032&page=1): > [@](#): > > During his career, Clinton’s approval hit bottom during the long hangover from the 1990-91 recession (43 percent in June 1993) and topped out shortly after the Lewinsky scandal broke (69 percent in January 1998). Or, according to a different article, 39%, while Reagan’s was 40%: > [@](#): > > eagan had two real plunges – first during the 1982 recession, when he dropped to 40 percent in the Gallup Poll, and then just after the 1986 midterm elections, when the Iran-Contra scandal broke. Reagan’s popularity dropped to 47 percent but then rebounded. […] > > Clinton took his big plunge in his first two years in office, dropping to 39 percent in August 1994. I did find one [site](http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KVD/is_1_3/ai_109025096/pg_4) that reports much lower troughs for all recent presidents: > [@](#): > > Kennedy 56% > Eisenhower 48% > Bush \* 29% > Johnson 35% > Clinton 37% > Reagan 35% > Nixon 24% > Ford 37% > Carter 28% But even then, Bush’s current rating is not higher than the low point for, e.g., Clinton and Ford. So could you explain what you meant by your remark? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/190 "2005-11-03T12:48:39Z")
**Kimstu** beat me to it, but I second, or third, the call for a cite from you, **Scylla**. A little searching finds secondary sources and claims to suggest that Clinton’s lowest approval rating was as low as 37% or 36%, but I couldn’t find any original source (or even secondary source that was particularly credible) to support this. The sources I was able to find do suggest that such a trough was never even remotely approached in his second term. Further, it seems that conservatives are doing quite a bit to lie and try to spin about Bush’s anvil-like approval ratings (see [Media Matters](http://mediamatters.org/items/200510140008) for an example). As I said before, 35%, bitches! ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/191 "2005-11-03T13:37:41Z")
Did you guys search [rushlimbaugh.com](http://rushlimbaugh.com) and [annecoulter.com](http://annecoulter.com)? ---
**Author:** ![Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/192 "2005-11-03T14:10:52Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > **Kimstu** beat me to it, but I second, or third, the call for a cite from you, **Scylla**. A little searching finds secondary sources and claims to suggest that Clinton’s lowest approval rating was as low as 37% or 36%, but I couldn’t find any original source (or even secondary source that was particularly credible) to support this. > > The sources I was able to find do suggest that such a trough was never even remotely approached in his second term. > > Further, it seems that conservatives are doing quite a bit to lie and try to spin about Bush’s anvil-like approval ratings (see [Media Matters](http://mediamatters.org/items/200510140008) for an example). > > As I said before, 35%, bitches! Oh no! A survey that included a sample with only [23.8% Republicans](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/RCP_PDF/CBS_Libby_Alito.pdf) shows that Bush has a 35% approval rating! It’s the end of the world! Bush must REALLY be teh suxxorrs!!!11! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/193 "2005-11-03T14:22:22Z")
> [@Twin](#): > > Oh no! A survey that included a sample with only [23.8% Republicans](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/RCP_PDF/CBS_Libby_Alito.pdf) shows that Bush has a 35% approval rating! It’s the end of the world! Bush must REALLY be teh suxxorrs!!!11! Yeah, that and the fact that it is so incredibly inconsistent with the other polling numbers out there! Good catch! ---
**Author:** ![Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/194 "2005-11-03T14:33:04Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Yeah, that and the fact that it is so incredibly inconsistent with the other polling numbers out there! Good catch! Actually, [this page](http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm) puts the president’s average recent approval rating at a little over 40%. CBS comes in with 35%, the lowest (not surprising thanks to the diminished Republican sample.) ---
**Author:** ![Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/195 "2005-11-03T14:56:19Z")
Don’t get me wrong. I’m less than impressed with an average approval rating of 40%. I just think it’s unfair for CBS to use a less than representative sample of Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/196 "2005-11-03T14:57:29Z")
\*\* Year Ago Today Bush Re-Elected: Happy Now Assholes?\*\* I’m indeed very happy that I didn’t vote for John Kerry. I’m even more happier (like that one?) that Bush is Prez instead of Kerry. Message to Demmies: I you want my vote, next time offer a candidate that I can actually, you know, like, **vote for**. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/197 "2005-11-03T15:04:59Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > Message to Demmies: I you want my vote, next time offer a candidate that I can actually, you know, like, **vote for**. Well, if you are happy with Bush, I gotta say, I think we’ll just have to accept the fact that we’ll never get your vote. I desperately hope, anyway, that we never put up a candidate that would get your vote. **Twin]**, I apologize for my flip response earlier. It is unfortunate that the sample was so unrepresentative. Not to excuse this, but it was difficult to look at so many polls coming out in the past few years that were unrepresentative in the other direction. It is wrong in either case. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/198 "2005-11-03T15:35:29Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > I’m even more happier (like that one?) that Bush is Prez instead of Kerry. Dare we inquire what he’s done that you approve of? ---
**Author:** ![Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/199 "2005-11-03T15:50:28Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > **Twin** , I apologize for my flip response earlier. It is unfortunate that the sample was so unrepresentative. Not to excuse this, but it was difficult to look at so many polls coming out in the past few years that were unrepresentative in the other direction. It is wrong in either case. Agreed. And your apology was very classy and is warmly accepted. Now I have to scratch you off my “Unreasonable Democrats” list! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/200 "2005-11-03T16:36:35Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > I never read that specific quote when it actually happened, so I never had a chance to believe or disbelieve him. > > (B) I’d say he’s deceptive and that some of the things he said there were deceptive. I don’t necessarily view that as bad, in fact I certainly don’t view that as bad. I gotta jump on this one. You didn’t read (or hear?) that specific quote when it happened. I guess you didn’t bother checking after the fact either. Have you ever read or checked anything? At any rate, why does it matter what you believe or disbelieve, since you’ve already said it’s OK for him to lie? > [@Bush](#): > > Gosh, I don’t think I ever said I’m not worried about Osama Bin Laden. That’s kinda one of those exaggerations. (3rd Debate) > [@Bush](#): > > In 2002 Bush said: “Well, as I say, we haven’t heard much from him. And I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don’t know where he is. I–I’ll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him.” Gee. That sure doesn’t sound like the original “we’re gonna get ya, there’s nowhere to hide” rhetoric, does it? > [@Bush](#): > > You gotta have a president who’ll pursue the terrorists > > We’ve never let up on Osama bin Laden from day one > > Bush will “. . . [f]ind terrorists where they train and hide.” (Campaign commercial) > [@Bush](#): > > “And [Osama Bin Laden is] just – he 's a person who has now been marginalized. His network is — his host government has been destroyed. He’s the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match…So I don’t know where he is. Nor — you know, I just don’t spend that much time on him really, to be honest with you. I…I truly am not that concerned about him.” > > “I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.” Richard Clarke, Bush’s former counterterrorism chief, testified before the 9/11 commission and said that “by invading Iraq, the president of the United States has greatly undermined the war on terrorism.” Bush I National Security Advisor Scowcroft Warned Iraq War Would Be Diversion From War On Terror. President George H.W. Bush’s National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft: “But the central point is that any campaign against Iraq, whatever the strategy, cost and risks, is certain to divert us for some indefinite period from our war on terrorism. Worse, there is a virtual consensus in the world against an attack on Iraq at this time. So long as that sentiment persists, it would require the U.S. to pursue a virtual go-it-alone strategy against Iraq, making any military operations correspondingly more difficult and expensive. The most serious cost, however, would be to the war on terrorism. Dr. Rice in her public testimony discussing the role of Iraq in the war on terrorism stated “given that this was a global war on terror, should we look not just at Afghanistan but should we look at doing something against Iraq” The Administration has not produced one shred of evidence that Iraq had an operational relationship with Al Qaeda, or that Iraq had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks on America. In fact, a U.S. Army War College report said that the war in Iraq has been a diversion that has drained key resources from the more imminent War on Terror. USA Today reported that “in 2002, troops from the 5th Special Forces Group who specialize in the Middle East were pulled out of the hunt for Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan to prepare for their next assignment: Iraq.” Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL) confirmed this, noting in February of 2002; a senior military commander told him “We are moving military and intelligence personnel and resources out of Afghanistan to get ready for a future war in Iraq.” According to Bush - Concerns about abuse at Guantanamo are based on allegations made by “people who were held in detention, people who hate America, people that had been trained in some instances to disassemble [sic].” President Bush (05/31/05) According to the FBI - Reports of abuse are not based on allegations by detainees but “accounts by agents for the Federal Bureau of Investigation.” The FBI agents wrote in memorandum that “they had seen female interrogators forcibly squeeze male prisoners’ genitals, and that they had witnessed other detainees stripped and shackled low to the floor for many hours.” Nevertheless, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said military interrogators know “that any detainees [should] be treated in a humane way, and they have been.” But you know what? I know none of this makes a bit of difference to you, so just fuck off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134.md?page=11)