# Year Ago Today Bush Re-Elected: Happy Now Assholes? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134 "2005-11-02T19:09:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/301 "2005-11-04T02:57:05Z")
Your misunderstand, or you misconstrue. The imporant issue with Kerry’s war protest days is not whether or not he was prescient, and could gaze into the future and see the rosy political future availalbe to such as he. You know, like all the other war protestors who rose to great prominence. That vast crowd, whose names slip my mind at the moment, but are no doubt at your very fingertips. Yes? He didn’t have to risk it! Just as I said…he was a bemedaled vet perfectly placed to realize his ambitions. He could have quietly expressed “doubts”, taken the advantage of leaning left without pissing off the right. He chose otherwise. Of course, I never said anything about “lone heroes”, those words you put in my mouth and were pleased to discover there. I am entirely capable of speaking for myself, thanks anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/302 "2005-11-04T02:59:56Z")
> [@Exploding Kitchen](#): > > **MartinHyde** , apparently your beliefs on Realism are slightly…skewed, and don’t particularly match up to what a true realist would believe. If you take the writings from the Realist trinity of Thucydides, Morgenthau, and Machiavelli as canon, Bush royally screwed the pooch. I’ve always considred Hobbes the main founder of realism. And Machiavelli just a side note. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/303 "2005-11-04T03:06:06Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He didn’t have to risk it! Just as I said…he was a bemedaled vet perfectly placed to realize his ambitions. He could have quietly expressed “doubts”, taken the advantage of leaning left without pissing off the right. He chose otherwise. Only if you assume that a ‘bemedaled vet’ who toed the line was a good political choice at the time. During a time of protest. I’m not seeing it myself, not with all the anti-military anti-war sentiment floating around then. I think that if one were to judge the wind THEN, your ‘bemedaled vet’ who toed the pro-war line would have an uphill struggle in politics unless he picked his state well. You may have a point if Kerry was running in, oh, say Arizona (only conservative state I could think of where pro-war would have been a winner for sure at that time…there are probably others, but Mass wouldn’t be the first to spring to mind). However, a ‘bemedaled vet’ who DIDN’T toe the line would have a pretty broad appeal AT THE TIME. Personally I think that this calculation (either way) was secondary to Kerry and that he did what he did because he felt it was right. But had you asked just about anyone AT THE TIME if an anti-war stance from your ‘bemedaled vet’ would be a winning political ticket, I think you’d have gotten a pretty resounding ‘yes’. > [@elucidator](#): > > Of course, I never said anything about “lone heroes”, those words you put in my mouth and were pleased to discover there. I am entirely capable of speaking for myself, thanks anyway. No, I was making it a parody. Never let it be said that I don’t think you can speak (and speak, and speak and speak…) for yourself 'luci. You are da master. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/304 "2005-11-04T03:07:54Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Does this mean we don’t get any support from this statement you made in post #162?The converse of that is that you accept that Iraq was a threat to us. This is the kind of assertion that I tend to think of as _demanding_ evidence-based support. But if you’re honorably bowing out of the thread, I guess we’ll have to be faster on the draw with a request for a cite the next time you make it. I’m more than happy to answer this question. Here’s how I feel about Iraq. I think Saddam Hussein was a bad thing, I think it was bad for us, bad for the Middle East, bad for Iraqis, bad for the World for him to be in power. In the HERE and NOW, how much of a threat do I think he was to ME or the greater United States in the HERe and NOW? Minimal to none. The basic threat I felt he posed in the “current” (this is prior to the invasion, obviously) was a destabalizing force in the Middle East, and then that caused a general “ripple effect” that wasn’t good for the United States and increased the chances of bad things happening in the Middle East which isn’t good for the United States. However, my worry was, you know this guy is pretty entrenched in his little kingdom. He’s developing his sons to take over, he’s got a handle on his stuff. He’s been castrated majorly by the disastrous military cost of the first Gulf War, and the ensuing years of economic sanctions. However I’d been watching those sanctions get eroded year after year. I felt like, some day in the future, Iraq was going to become a major threat and also a major player like it was in the early 1980s before it got into military adventurism against Iran. It was my feeling that it was in the best interests of the United States to do the hard thing, knock Saddam out of power _now_ and eliminate the future threat. The time when states address threats AFTER they’ve grown is gone now. That was a relic of the past. In today’s world, by the time a threat has grown to the point that you can realistically _see_ it, it’s already a huge problem and a CRITICAL threat to your people. Lessons of history have shown us we cannot allow problems to grow, we need to nip them in the bud for the greater good of the entire international community. I knew this Iraq thing would be hard, I never doubted it for one minute. I think some people who supported the war were confused about what we were doing, and were confused about how easy it would be. So ultimately, do I think Iraq was a threat in the here and now? Somewhat, but only in a general, non-specific way. However the “looming threat” that Iraq posed was highly significant. And of course on top of that Saddam had laughed at the international community for years. His continued leadership in Iraq was undermining to the entire notion of collective security. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/305 "2005-11-04T05:24:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > \ > > Don’t start nothing, won’t be nothing. But pull this shit again, and I will bust yer chops the moment I know about it. Guaranteed. Like somebody’s worried about you busting their chops? Get over yourself. If you’re as well versed about those times as you claim to be then you know damn well what Kerry did and testified to. I call it treason. I call it slandering the men he served with. I served my four years in the military and got out slightly before Kerry’s service time, but I still felt like his statements were a personal insult. I also thought he did what he did because he thought those actions were politically expedient. He just overestimated how many people shared his views, and underestimated how many people, 30 years later, would remember. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/306 "2005-11-04T06:19:39Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > Like somebody’s worried about you busting their chops? Get over yourself… Here’s an idea! You got over yourself first, and show me how its done. > [@](#): > > …If you’re as well versed about those times as you claim to be then you know damn well what Kerry did and testified to… I do indeed. Kerry attended the Winter Soldier events, and listened to stories from returned servicemen. He believed those stories, as I did, and do. Called to testify before the Senate committee, he relayed those same stories. If repeating what you believe to be true, told to you by men you trust, is treason, then we have a very sorry state indeed. If you pledge allegiance to a country that needs to fear truth, your allegiance is misplaced. The Paris thing was of similar cloth. Kerry went to Paris, and discussed peace negotiations with the N Vietnamese negotiators. He asked, IIRC, under what conditions the NV would be willing to release all American POW. There was nothing clandestine in the meeting, no secrets were passed, nor did Kerry swear any allegiance to any foreign power, so far as I know. If you have information otherwise, I encourage you to share it. Beyond that, it becomes clear that your charge of treason is nothing more than slander for someone who’s views, and actions based on those views, upset you. If this be treason, make the most of it. > [@](#): > > …I call it treason. I call it slandering the men he served with… All of them, **John**? All of them, who related those stories at Winter Soldier, they were _all lying_? All of them, lying vermin slandering the men they served with? My Lai never happened, the Phoenix program was a paragon of military virtue? Is this the fantasy you would like to sell? With nothing to support it but your insistence that it is so? On this basis you call a man a traitor? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/307 "2005-11-04T07:02:21Z")
> [@](#): > > **xtisme** : He would have had ever expectation that his position on that would be a political benifit to him down the road…unless he had some kind of future gazing machine to tell him that in the 80’s public sentiment about anti-Vietnam protesting would shift. > [@](#): > > **xtisme** : Only if you assume that a ‘bemedaled vet’ who toed the line was a good political choice at the time. During a time of protest. I’m not seeing it myself, not with all the anti-military anti-war sentiment floating around then. Remember that when John Kerry testified in 1971, the country was extremely divided over the issue of Vietnam. I don’t know why you have remembered things as being rosey for protestors. It was only the year before that the National Guard had fired on student protestors at Kent State and killed four students. A year later the anti-war Democratic Presidential candidate lost every state except Massachusetts to Richard Nixon. Whether you respected what Kerry and other Vietnam Vets against the war were doing or not, just as you said – Kerry had no gazing machine to tell him what the public sentiment was going to be in the future. Why would he have thought that the _unpopular_ position that he took then would have worked to his benefit in a Presidential race **33 years later?** And if he _did_ think that, he was certainly mistaken. The country remains divided and bitter. Honorable men that I like hurl the most damning invective at each other. Bill’s bones continue to crumble at West Point. I don’t march for _that_ war anymore. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/308 "2005-11-04T12:27:27Z")
Wow I thought the OP was about finally there can be no question that W was fairly elected, so stop your bitchin’ about that ‘selected not elected’ crap. But I should have known better from this board. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/309 "2005-11-04T13:46:08Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Um, well, whatever you say. However, this is me. Remember me? The (if I say so myself) usually rational and fair-spoken Liberal But Not A Fucking Lunatic ™ who sometimes even posts to agree with you, and tends to avoid “Bush sux” rhetoric and mindless Bush-hatred in general? (I do have to plead guilty about the “for those of us who can actually read” crack, though.) > > When someone like me tells you that your post did indeed come across as gleeful indifference to various concerns including the deaths of US soldiers, maybe it shouldn’t be automatically dismissed as a “bullshit barrage”. Just suggestin’. Not automatically - mostly based on the fact that you picked out one of the four unaddressed points of the OP (including the question of the title) and assumed, sort of, that this was “the rest” to which I was responding. Like I said, doesn’t really matter - it isn’t possible to piss in the punchbowl of the latest anti-Bush rant on the SDMB without the fanatics resenting it. Picking out one thing and pretending it’s the only thing is a time-honored tradition hereabouts - no doubt I have done it myself. > [@wring](#): > > **Shodan** - yea, I got what you were aiming at, but not 'cause your aim was good, ya know? I ask no more from the “Liberal But Not a Fucking Lunatic[sup]TM[/sup]” contingent hereabouts. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/310 "2005-11-04T13:48:38Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Wow I thought the OP was about finally there can be no question that W was fairly elected, so stop your bitchin’ about that ‘selected not elected’ crap. But I should have known better from this board. Yeah, it’s funny how citizens of a democracy can get all bent out of shape when they discover that their votes count for nothing. BTW, been over to the thread about the GAO report on the Ohio vote in 2004? It seems the GAO is bitching about it, too. It’s like NOBODY believes those fucking lies the GOP is peddling any more. Must be rough for you. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/311 "2005-11-04T14:19:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Why does this matter? > > It’s not like he’s up for re-election anytime soon, or ever. You’re stuck with him. It’s quite seriously the most meaningless, irrelevant opinion poll that you could possibly devise. Ya see, it isn’t entirely Bush’s approval ratings and Bush’s alone that are involved, despite the wording of the question. Answers reflect to some degree the approval ratings of the Republicans in general, and with the next Congressional campaigns already starting. The poll results reflect, to some degreee, public willingness to vote against the Reps in Congress as a check on Bush, or for that matter to vote for them to support him. Bush may be around for 3 more years, although that isn’t an unrealistic topic to bring up anymore, but Senators and Congressmen can’t say that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/312 "2005-11-04T14:21:19Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > There were also reports that Saddam had stockpiles of sand IN Bagdad, elucidator, and that there were vast quantities of sand hidden in various parts of Iraq, buried under the WMDs. And on top of our oil. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/313 "2005-11-04T14:37:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Like I said, doesn’t really matter - it isn’t possible to piss in the punchbowl of the latest anti-Bush rant on the SDMB without the fanatics resenting it. You should really visit your physician. There are many fine medications available to alleviate pain, even when it is localized to your girl parts. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/314 "2005-11-04T14:38:29Z")
As **ElvisL1ives** has pointed out, one of the advantages of being President is that you’ve got pull with the electorate come mid-term elections. With Bush’s approval rating with anyone but the rabid-right effectively at 0%, I suspect any Republican in a contested seat come election time is going to politely ask the President to stay out of his district. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/315 "2005-11-04T16:09:26Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Why does this matter? > > It’s not like he’s up for re-election anytime soon, or ever. You’re stuck with him. It’s quite seriously the most meaningless, irrelevant opinion poll that you could possibly devise. The Republicans ran against Jimmy Carter in 1976, 1980, 1984, and 1988. Sure, it was Mondale and Dukakis on the last two ballots, but the Pubbies knew that the anti-Carter vote was a big cow that they could milk successfully. Similarly, I don’t care who the Republicans nominate, the Dems will be running against Bush in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/316 "2005-11-04T16:23:33Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > As **ElvisL1ives** has pointed out, one of the advantages of being President is that you’ve got pull with the electorate come mid-term elections. > > With Bush’s approval rating with anyone but the rabid-right effectively at 0%, I suspect any Republican in a contested seat come election time is going to politely ask the President to stay out of his district. It may have already started. Schwarzenegger and Bush were recently in a tiff. Arnold is trying to push his initiatives, and was “annoyed” that George chose just this time to come to California. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/317 "2005-11-04T16:48:33Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t care who the Republicans nominate, the Dems will be running against Bush in 2008. Is their new slogan: Yesterday is never too late? At least they will be running on a platform slighty more topical than the Vietnam War… ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/318 "2005-11-04T16:56:51Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It may have already started. Schwarzenegger and Bush were recently in a tiff. Arnold is trying to push his initiatives, and was “annoyed” that George chose just this time to come to California. The race for governor here in VA is pretty tight and Bush has been surprisingly absent from the stump for the Republican candidate. “Pressures of state - wouldn’t be prudent to make a campaign appearance - I can’t locate VA on a map - etc. etc. etc.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/319 "2005-11-04T18:09:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not automatically - mostly based on the fact that you picked out one of the four unaddressed points of the OP (including the question of the title) and assumed, sort of, that this was “the rest” to which I was responding. Well, perhaps, like me, she asumed that you were referring to all four of those “unaddressed points” when you said “the rest.” But only one of them seems beyond the pale. Saying “neener neener neener” about incompetent cronies, a potentially reactionary Supreme court, and the existence of a second Bush Administration gets more of a :rolleyes: what a prick from me. Neglecting to exclude more than 2000 dead U.S. soldiers from your “neener neener neener” gets you a :eek: **WHAT A PRICK!!!** :mad: from me, and clearly, many others. Your protestations after the fact, particularly with the indignant tone you gave them, carry a trace of _essence du disingenue_. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/320 "2005-11-04T18:38:30Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, perhaps, like me, she asumed that you were referring to all four of those “unaddressed points” when you said “the rest.” But only one of them seems beyond the pale. And yet all the reactions were as if that one were the only one. > [@](#): > > Your protestations after the fact, particularly with the indignant tone you gave them, carry a trace of _essence du disingenue_. What indignation? I have said repeatedly that there is no possible way to express yourself such that assholes cannot whip themselves into a lather over it. **wring** and **Kimstu** are both members of the LBNaL club, and thus deserving of a semi-serious response. To the rest of you, I can only quote the immortal words of the (sadly departed) **Brutus** after the election: > [@Brutus](#): > > [let me take a moment and cordially invite the board hardcore Lefties to gobble the Defeat-Rod.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284476&page=1&pp=50&highlight=nadsack) Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134.md?page=17)