# Year Ago Today Bush Re-Elected: Happy Now Assholes? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134 "2005-11-02T19:09:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/81 "2005-11-02T23:27:14Z")
The real problem is this party of country bullshit. **Shodan** , you epitomize this with your moronic “neener neener” comment. I think there are some moronic things Dems are doing, and there are plenty of moronic things the Repubs are doing. There are people on both sides of the aisle that are blindly following their party, and this is the real danger. I’d love to do a social experiment where you reverse the stances of Kerry and Bush, and I bet some morons would tag right along. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/82 "2005-11-02T23:27:23Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > I thought that he was still getting paid for “consulting”. Sh. Don’t pay any attention to that. Look over here! Steroids in professional sports! Bad, bad! Outrage! Ooo, shiny! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/83 "2005-11-02T23:28:03Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > No, my sweet **wring** , I don’t trust you with my blank check. But considering we don’t fire all CIA employees and hire new ones every time there’s a change in the adminstration, how do you know that they weren’t there since the time of Clinton? Would you be upset at hearing about black sites if Kerry had won last year, or would you be defending it as a necessary evil? As the New Yorker reported, the Rendering system first put terrorists to trials in absence and then picked them up, or depending on the result of the trial, even got rid of them. Bush decided to get rid of many of the checks that were available before, giving us “gulags” and the spectacle of snatching people that before would have been declared innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/84 "2005-11-02T23:28:23Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > I suppose it has entirely to do with the orders those CIA agents received from the commander in chief. Do you blame a gun for the person it shoots, or the person firing it? They are not guns, but people. Unlike a gun, they can choose what they do; they share the blame. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/85 "2005-11-02T23:29:21Z")
It is of vital importance that, at this point, we take a moment to remember that Clinton got a blowjob. Therefore, anything bad (however logicaly it may seem) that you may have to say about this administration is moot and can be written off as Loony Liberal hysteria. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/86 "2005-11-02T23:30:53Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > No, my sweet **wring** , I don’t trust you with my blank check. But considering we don’t fire all CIA employees and hire new ones every time there’s a change in the adminstration, how do you know that they weren’t there since the time of Clinton? Would you be upset at hearing about black sites if Kerry had won last year, or would you be defending it as a necessary evil? I’m quite certain that many of them were indeed employed under CLinton. But then the Clinton administration didn’t: 1. ask for an attorney general’s office clarification allowing the use of torture 2. set up a system to house prisoners outside of the US, with the expressed intention of making them inelligible for protections under our Constitution (GITMO) 3. set up the system of prisons identified in the OP or 4. Specifically state that the provisions of Geneva didn’t apply. Bush administration did. Had CLinton done any of that, I’d have the same objections. Torture is an incredibly stupid option. Over and above the objection of “It’s fundementally wrong”, is the fact that information obtained through torture is unreliable and fucking useless. The torture itself becomes also a propeganda tool used **against us**. so the balance sheet about using torture reads: 1. It’s a morally bankrupt concept. 2. There is absolutely no positive outcome wrt information recevied that way and 3. the fact we’re torturing prisoners increases the number of enemies we have, thereby making us less safe overall. there isn’t a single positive outcome. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/87 "2005-11-02T23:31:08Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > No, my sweet **wring** , I don’t trust you with my blank check. But considering we don’t fire all CIA employees and hire new ones every time there’s a change in the adminstration, how do you know that they weren’t there since the time of Clinton? Would you be upset at hearing about black sites if Kerry had won last year, or would you be defending it as a necessary evil? I’m quite certain that many of them were indeed employed under CLinton. But then the Clinton administration didn’t: 1. ask for an attorney general’s office clarification allowing the use of torture 2. set up a system to house prisoners outside of the US, with the expressed intention of making them inelligible for protections under our Constitution (GITMO) 3. set up the system of prisons identified in the OP or 4. Specifically state that the provisions of Geneva didn’t apply. Bush administration did. Had CLinton done any of that, I’d have the same objections. Torture is an incredibly stupid option. Over and above the objection of “It’s fundementally wrong”, is the fact that information obtained through torture is unreliable and fucking useless. The torture itself becomes also a propeganda tool used **against us**. so the balance sheet about using torture reads: 1. It’s a morally bankrupt concept. 2. There is absolutely no positive outcome wrt information recevied that way and 3. the fact we’re torturing prisoners increases the number of enemies we have, thereby making us less safe overall. there isn’t a single positive outcome. fucking idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/88 "2005-11-02T23:35:21Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > They are not guns, but people. Unlike a gun, they can choose what they do; they share the blame. Alright. That’s fine. They should receive a share of the blame for not coming forward. Except…have you noticed that people who come forward agains the administration really don’t fare all that well? Their spouses tend to get outed to the general public. They lose jobs. They’re ridiculed by the general media and made scapegoats by the military they serve in. The top brass is never made responsible for the orders given. “Share” seems to mean “shoulder” in Bush-speak. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/89 "2005-11-02T23:51:57Z")
> [@mrrealtime](#): > > Perhaps we should send you instead. At least no one would whine about it. Do I have to add “WHy do you hate America?” or an emoticon for people to make realize I’m doing a conservative spoof? Granted not much of a spoof. I hear that kind of shit every time some soldier says Iraq is going less then well. ---
**Author:** ![Floyd13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@Floyd13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floyd13)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/90 "2005-11-02T23:54:53Z")
Debating with some of these Bush supporters is like talking to an eight year old. Naive doesn’t even begin to explain their opinions. We already have one person dismissing a conspiracy theory because, well golly gee, those never occur. All people in gov’t are honest and only do what’s best for me and you. And then we have another person believing that every person we torture is a terrorist. Hello…most terrorist are already dead, remember they tend to blow themselves up? Now of course some of them are, but that doesn’t make up for torturing the innocent ones. The thing I really don’t understand, is the willingness to trust and blindly follow ANY political party. I mean what, do you think Bush is Jesus or something? That would at least make sense because we already know how some of these evangelicals will blindly follow even the most ridiculous notions. Wake the fuck up people. Most humans are dirtbags and politicians are indeed human, for the most part. Have you seen all the scandals, murders, rapes, molesters, thefts, lies, etc. that humans have perpetrated on each other? Expecting anything else out of Bushco or virtually any other power hungry politician is foolish at best, and just plain evil at worst. Ok, now that I’ve offended most of the country, I’d like to finish by quoting the brilliant George Carlin. “Some people are fucking stupid” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/91 "2005-11-03T00:07:33Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > And I’d argue that the government running a surplus isn’t a good thing, it just means government taxed its citizens more than it needed to. > > A big deficit isn’t good either, and I’m not saying Bush is a financial whiz. I’m just saying I wouldn’t expect much of ANY President when it came to budget balancing when we have to address issues with global terrorism and after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. > > The conspiracy theories about Bush planting evidence I’ll just disregard entirely. I’d almost buy the first statement, were it not for the enormous existing national debt. Conservatives liked to say that the surplus belonged to us, yet apparently the national debt was an orphan. I don’t buy 9/11 as the excuse for racking up major deficits. Sure, the Afghan invasion had to be done. But not Iraq. And not while giving tax cuts to the wealthy. And not while adding a new prescription drug benefit (but oddly NOT authorizing Medicare to bargain for better prices). And the Niger forgeries are not mere conspiracy theories. [From the UPI](http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20051023-104217-9679r) > [@](#): > > Nonetheless, the forged documents appeared, on the face of it, to shore up the case for war, and to discredit Wilson. The origin of the forgeries is therefore of real importance, and any link between the forgeries and Bush administration aides would be highly damaging and almost certainly criminal. > > The letterheads and official seals that appeared to authenticate the documents apparently came from a burglary at the Niger Embassy in Rome in 2001. At this point, the facts start dribbling away into conspiracy theories that involve membership of shadowy Masonic lodges, Iranian go-betweens, right-wing cabals inside Italian Intelligence and so on. It is not yet known how far Fitzgerald, in his two years of inquiries, has fished in these murky waters. The investigation continues. We’ll see who has the last laugh. - ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/92 "2005-11-03T00:17:47Z")
Golly, there’s so much anger here. Why not vote for a candidate that is guaranteed to have an effect on the terrorists, and who has the resources and network in place to crush the bad guys? [A brave leader!](http://206.251.175.10/articles.php?a=2463) Ok, humor aside, I’m going to ask the Republicans here: Do you feel the war on terror, thus far, has accomplished enough to justify the price we’ve pain in money, lives, and world regard? Have the numerous and well-publicized accounts of corruption in the Bush administration caused your “faith” in him to be shaken even a little bit? I believe that Bush is a man with a plan. What it is, I don’t know. Likely none of us ever will. I only know the effects his action have had on my life and those of the rest of America from what I’ve seen in the media, and I don’t much care for the picture it paints. Kerry would have done something diffirent, because he is a diffirent person with diffirent advisors and goals. Better/worse can’t say. But it would not have lead us to the place we are today. In essence, and because this is the Pit, I will conclude with: Fuck you both. Fuck you people who have no ability to objectively look at what Bush has done and draw your own conclusions. Fuck those people who blindly condemn EVERYTHING Bush does as part of some “evil conspiracy”. Do those happen? Yes, but making Bush into a monolithic Adversary for you to hate and paint yourselves as the heroes of the piece is a self-aggrandizing blowjob that you give to each other. Look at what he’s done. Get angry, even. Toss around as many fucks as you like. But please, for the love of intelligent debate, don’t just intentionally piss each other off without even tryhing to share information. I know it’s the Pit. I know it’s the padded room where you can beat the walls and not get hurt. But don’t do that and think you’ve made the things that got you into the room in the first place go away. Or I could just be babbling incoherently. Maybe I’m ful of shit and self-importance. Feel free to call me on my flaws and skip this post. And go boil your head. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Loblaw\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@Bob\_Loblaw\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Loblaw_1)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/93 "2005-11-03T00:39:35Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Clinton and Bush served during vastly different times. Bush had to address a lot of issues that Clinton never did. And I’d argue that the government running a surplus isn’t a good thing, it just means government taxed its citizens more than it needed to. > > A big deficit isn’t good either, and I’m not saying Bush is a financial whiz. I’m just saying I wouldn’t expect much of ANY President when it came to budget balancing when we have to address issues with global terrorism and after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. > > The conspiracy theories about Bush planting evidence I’ll just disregard entirely. 1. Clinton and Bush had many of the same situations confronting them, but approached them differently. Clinton gave terrorism a top priority, Bush gave that to war with Iraq. Government running a surplus is better than running a deficit when debt is as large as it is. Clinton at least made budget choices and fought hard with Congress to reduce spending. Bush never met a tab he did not want to pick up. 2. Not to expect much of any president when balancing a budget is just an excuse for poor GOP performance. Deficits go up for Reagan and Bushes every year, down every year for Carter and Clinton. 3. Bush is too lazy to plant evidence. That’s what he has Karl Rove to oversee. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/94 "2005-11-03T01:21:06Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Nope, I’m convinced by superior argument. I concede that Bush is not responsible for hurricanes. > [@Updike](#): > > Good for you, pal. On this one issue, at least you’re marginally smarter than these people, your leftist commrades:\ The first link lead to a commentary about how republicans helped global warming. Same with the second and the third. Take a refresher course on reading comprehension. These do not claim that the Pres. is responsible for the hurricanes, they are saying that … (Can you complete the sentence?) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/95 "2005-11-03T01:33:59Z")
> [@Bob Loblaw](#): > > …3. Bush is too lazy to plant evidence. That’s what he has Karl Rove to oversee. Bush: Everything went just fine, Turdy! Snuck in, planted the gun, just like you told me, snuck out and nobody saw a thing! Rove: Did you remember… Bush: Yes, I remembered to wipe off my fingerprints! Of course! Not as dumb as you…Hmmmmm. Rove: What? What? Bush: Can’t seem to find my wallet… ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/96 "2005-11-03T01:41:24Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > And those are his good qualities. I voted against him both times he ran. I feel good about that. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/97 "2005-11-03T01:47:28Z")
35% bitches! I’m starting to think they’re all here at the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/98 "2005-11-03T01:50:56Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > You honestly think the CIA/FBI/The Shop/WhatHaveYouAgency is rounding up random foreign nationals wholesale and shipping them off to these black sites with no fondation? Dearie, no. Everybody knows that US Government agencies are practically infallible. If the prisoners weren’t guilty, why would anyone even bother picking them up ? :rolleyes: Does the name [Maher Arar](http://www.timecanada.com/CNOY/story.adp?year=2004) ring a bell ? A Canadian citizen changing planes in the US, snapped up by an unnamed US Gvt. Agency and promptly shipped to Syria, where the Syrians promptly started to beat the shit out of him for a year or so, making him “confess” to terrorist training he never attended, among other things. Now, he was lucky. He was backed by a relatively powerful government that seems to give a shit and and so he got back. (I am sure some will be fast to point out that it was the _Syrians_ that did the dirty work and that no US authority could have predicted the tragic, tragic outcome…) I have no problem believing that a government agency without any oversight or accountability will promptly abuse the unlimited power it has been handed. You got the wrong guy ? Oops. Well, you can either admit mistake and release him - and if he wasn’t an enemy before, he sure is now - or you can wait and see if the problem goes away on its own, so to speak. It’s not as if he’s imbued with certain unalienable rights or anything… ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/99 "2005-11-03T02:01:56Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > The deficit in particular is upsetting… This email may cheer you up: [from a Senate Appropriations Committee staffer to other Senate staff](http://www.townhall.com/blogs/capitolreport/TimChapman/story/2005/11/01/173834.html) > [@](#): > > _Remember, we will start at the beginning of your list and fund down until we run out of money. So if you spend big… you’ll likely only get one or two projects._ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/100 "2005-11-03T02:06:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m certainly pleased about the Supreme Court thing. Yep. Me too, now that Harriet “Bush is the smartest man I’ve ever known” Meirs is back in her WH office. That was the the one good thing I expected Bush to accomplish, and I think Roberts and Alito are just what the SCOTUS needs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134.md?page=6)