# Year Ago Today Bush Re-Elected: Happy Now Assholes? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134 "2005-11-02T19:09:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bob\_Loblaw\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@Bob\_Loblaw\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Loblaw_1)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/101 "2005-11-03T02:22:00Z")
> [@Spiny Norman](#): > > Does the name [Maher Arar](http://www.timecanada.com/CNOY/story.adp?year=2004) ring a bell ? A Canadian citizen changing planes in the US, snapped up by an unnamed US Gvt. Agency and promptly shipped to Syria, where the Syrians promptly started to beat the shit out of him for a year or so, making him “confess” to terrorist training he never attended, among other things. Now, he was lucky. He was backed by a relatively powerful government that seems to give a shit and and so he got back. (I am sure some will be fast to point out that it was the _Syrians_ that did the dirty work and that no US authority could have predicted the tragic, tragic outcome…) > > I have no problem believing that a government agency without any oversight or accountability will promptly abuse the unlimited power it has been handed. You got the wrong guy ? Oops. Well, you can either admit mistake and release him - and if he wasn’t an enemy before, he sure is now - or you can wait and see if the problem goes away on its own, so to speak. It’s not as if he’s imbued with certain unalienable rights or anything… Umm, I thought the Syrians were the enemy of Oceania this week? Which is it? Does anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/102 "2005-11-03T02:23:27Z")
> [@Bob Loblaw](#): > > 1. Clinton and Bush had many of the same situations confronting them, but approached them differently. Clinton gave terrorism a top priority, Bush gave that to war with Iraq. Government running a surplus is better than running a deficit when debt is as large as it is. Clinton at least made budget choices and fought hard with Congress to reduce spending. Bush never met a tab he did not want to pick up. Clinton didn’t make terrorism near as important as Bush has. Bush has vastly increased our anti-terrorism efforts WHILE doing the war in Iraq. Don’t confuse the issue by trying to make the claim that the war in Iraq is a detraction from the War on Terror, it isn’t. We’re spending as much money as we feel is appropriate on the war on terror, and we wouldn’t be spending any more if we hadn’t gone to war with Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/103 "2005-11-03T02:24:22Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > I think sweeping statements like “Bush should be in prison.” Go entirely too far. … > > Some of our agents may have committed crimes, but sometimes you have to break a few eggs to bake a cake, and I think most realists will accept that as a fact. Point 1. If anyone can prove (and really make it stick) that he deliberately altered or changed information and lied to start a war for no reason, then putting him in prison is not going far enough in my book. Point 2. Fuck the old “break some eggs” argument. That is just a lame ass excuse for war crimes. The good old USA has executed people for war crimes in the past. I tend towards General Sherman’s concept of total war (fight to win, fight like you mean it), but still there are things that are war crimes, no matter what excuse or label is used to try and justify them. Torture is a war crime. Killing noncombatants that are already “pacified” is a war crime. And so on. Besides, the Leader keeps telling us we are fighting for truth justice and the American way, freedom, democracy, goodness and light. The good guys don’t pull the sleazy crap we are pulling. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/104 "2005-11-03T02:26:48Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Yep. Me too, now that Harriet “Bush is the smartest man I’ve ever known” Meirs is back in her WH office. > > That was the the one good thing I expected Bush to accomplish, and I think Roberts and Alito are just what the SCOTUS needs. At least they (Roberts and Alito) are qualified, and we have more than just “trust me” to back their records. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/105 "2005-11-03T02:28:50Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > I’m not in _any_ political party; my remarks are directed at Republicans. Also, most people are only one of the three; two of three if elected. > > Make that four; I forgot “insane”. The fact that you aren’t a member of a political party doesn’t really change anything. The fact remains, someone who doesn’t agree with you, specifically Republicans = all those bad things you said. . . So again, someone has to have some serious defect to be a Republican? You know, just because you disagree with Bush…, not all Republicans = Bush. It’s a big tent party just like the Democratic party is. Anyways, I’m willing to accept that most people on the other side of the political spectrum than me, Democrats, left-leaning independents and etc can indeed be perfectly normal people who happen to have different opinions than me when it comes to how government ought to be ran. I don’t think that makes them assholes, or insane, or monsters. It makes them different from me. I’m willing to argue my beliefs til I’m red in the face, but I won’t just carte blanche declare all of them to be monsters or assholes or stupid or insane or anything else. I recognize the term “Democrat” or the term “liberal” covers a huge spectrum of beliefs and people. I think there is a lot of value to their ideology and I certainly think it is worthy of being debated intelligently. Sadly some people don’t feel the same about my party. It’s sad that you can’t recognize people who have different opinions than you can’t also be NORMAL human beings who, oh my god, just feel differently on certain issues. I guess there’s absolutely nothing to discuss between us. You just want to call entire groups of people names, and I don’t want to lower myself to that level. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/106 "2005-11-03T02:29:42Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > …That was the the one good thing I expected Bush to accomplish, and I think Roberts and Alito are just what the SCOTUS needs. So, what do you think? When Roberts presides over his impeachment, will he wear those _adorable_ gold stripes that Rehnquists sewed on? Keeping in mind that his skin tone is more of an “autumn”. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/107 "2005-11-03T02:30:27Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Point 1. If anyone can prove (and really make it stick) that he deliberately altered or changed information and lied to start a war for no reason, then putting him in prison is not going far enough in my book. I’d have no problem if he lied or altered evidence. I think the War in Iraq needed to be fought, and if the public needed to be given something flashy to get behind it, than so be it. The President of the United States needs to do what is necessary from a realistic perspective, he can’t be concerned with the opinions of the vox populi, who in general are not capable of understanding important geopolitical issues. It isn’t a crime to lie, even if you’re President of the United States. In fact I think it’s a _necessity_ in many instances. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/108 "2005-11-03T02:30:56Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > President Bush is not responsible for any bloated floating dead bodies, unless you’re saying that he caused the hurricanes. :rolleyes: Nope he wasn’t responsible for the Katrina reaction; he was out that day. Just out of curiosity **Bricker** , you dislike the deficit but feel that it’s necessary under the current conditions, right? Do you also agree with the Republicans continuing tax cuts for the very wealthy while we plummet further into debt? **Shodan**? Wow. If you actually contribute something meaningful to one of these threads one day I’d die of shock. Go Cheney yourself dude. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/109 "2005-11-03T02:31:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, what do you think? When Roberts presides over his impeachment, will he wear those _adorable_ gold stripes that Rehnquists sewed on? Keeping in mind that his skin tone is more of an “autumn”. Would you like to bet some money on anything you said here ever actually happening? I could use some free cash. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/110 "2005-11-03T02:33:01Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > Nope he wasn’t responsible for the Katrina reaction; he was out that day. > > Just out of curiosity **Bricker** , you dislike the deficit but feel that it’s necessary under the current conditions, right? Do you also agree with the Republicans continuing tax cuts for the very wealthy while we plummet further into debt? > > **Shodan**? Wow. If you actually contribute something meaningful to one of these threads one day I’d die of shock. Go Cheney yourself dude. You know, in the 1980s the tax rate for the wealthiest members of the population was reduced dramatically. This had the effect of actually increasing the amount of tax revenue the wealthy generated, both in absolute terms and relative to the amount of tax revenue provided by lower income brackets. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/111 "2005-11-03T02:34:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, what do you think? When Roberts presides over his impeachment, will he wear those _adorable_ gold stripes that Rehnquists sewed on? Keeping in mind that his skin tone is more of an “autumn”. You know… one of the things that speaks for Roberts is that he got rid of those gilded, self-aggrandizing stripes. But, maybe he’s in dire need of a silly hat. Anyone want to second the motion that Roberts wear a silly hat? ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/112 "2005-11-03T02:37:08Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > You know, in the 1980s the tax rate for the wealthiest members of the population was reduced dramatically. This had the effect of actually increasing the amount of tax revenue the wealthy generated, both in absolute terms and relative to the amount of tax revenue provided by lower income brackets. So if we eliminate the Estate Tax, costing the government at least $20 billion per year, we’re going to actually make that back and then some? Sounds like _fuzzy math_. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/113 "2005-11-03T02:41:45Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > I’d have no problem if he lied or altered evidence. I think the War in Iraq needed to be fought, and if the public needed to be given something flashy to get behind it, than so be it. The President of the United States needs to do what is necessary from a realistic perspective, he can’t be concerned with the opinions of the vox populi, who in general are not capable of understanding important geopolitical issues. > > It isn’t a crime to lie, even if you’re President of the United States. In fact I think it’s a _necessity_ in many instances. Well then. It’s OK to lie in order to start a war against some two bit piece of shit who was no threat to us, and couldn’t even attack his neighbors. It’s OK for Bush to do whatever he fucking pleases, so long as we get to say “ooooh look shiny”. It’s OK that our troops lives are being pissed away for this bullshit. Bush has never done a fucking thing from a realistic perspective. He despises those in the “reality based world”. We have a faith based war, shored up by what one analyst called faith based intelligence. It’s all good as far as you are concerned. > [@NY Times](#): > > In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn’t like about Bush’s former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House’s displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn’t fully comprehend – but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency. > > The aide [to Bush] said that guys like me were “in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. “That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality – judiciously, as you will – we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”… > > …And for those who don’t get it? That was explained to me in late 2002 by Mark McKinnon, a longtime senior media adviser to Bush, who now runs his own consulting firm and helps the president. He started by challenging me. “You think he’s an idiot, don’t you?” I said, no, I didn’t. “No, you do, all of you do, up and down the West Coast, the East Coast, a few blocks in southern Manhattan called Wall Street. Let me clue you in. We don’t care. You see, you’re outnumbered 2 to 1 by folks in the big, wide middle of America, busy working people who don’t read The New York Times or Washington Post or The L.A. Times. And you know what they like? They like the way he walks and the way he points, the way he exudes confidence. They have faith in him. And when you attack him for his malaprops, his jumbled syntax, it’s good for us. Because you know what those folks don’t like? They don’t like you!” In this instance, the final “you,” of course, meant the entire reality-based community… We have long since made clear that a state of war is not a blank check for the president when it comes to the rights of the Nation’s citizens. — Justice Sandra Day O’Connor “Unconstrained Executive detention for the purpose of investigating and preventing subversive activity is the hallmark of the Star Chamber. Access to counsel for the purpose of protecting the citizen from official mistakes and mistreatment is the hallmark of due process.” - John Paul Stevens “The Bush administration’s assertion that the President can hold suspects incommunicado indefinitely and without charge is as arrogant as its legal arguments that the President can authorise torture. No president is above the law or the Constitution”. - Senator Patrick Leahy ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/114 "2005-11-03T02:46:24Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > You know… one of the things that speaks for Roberts is that he got rid of those gilded, self-aggrandizing stripes. > > But, maybe he’s in dire need of a silly hat. Anyone want to second the motion that Roberts wear a silly hat? Never mind a silly hat – how about a nice [wig](http://www.measureformeasure.co.uk/admin/uploads/images/Judgewig.jpg)? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/115 "2005-11-03T02:47:51Z")
“Over 2000 soldiers have died in a war based on blatant lies.” Shodan replies: “Neener neener neener.” What’s the point in this partisan debate anymore? Dead servicemen? Neener neener neener. ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/116 "2005-11-03T02:52:03Z")
A member and apparently a moderator make fun of our soldiers dying in Iraq and no one really gets called on it? I don’t believe it. How many have to die for them to realize the war is a toltal mistake. And why haven’t they volunteered to go? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/117 "2005-11-03T02:53:05Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > I’d have no problem if he lied or altered evidence. I think the War in Iraq needed to be fought, and if the public needed to be given something flashy to get behind it, than so be it. The President of the United States needs to do what is necessary from a realistic perspective, he can’t be concerned with the opinions of the vox populi, who in general are not capable of understanding important geopolitical issues. > > It isn’t a crime to lie, even if you’re President of the United States. In fact I think it’s a _necessity_ in many instances. You complain that I call you names, then you post _this_ ? “Bush is a liar and a fraud, and that’s OK with me !” ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/118 "2005-11-03T02:53:42Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > You know, in the 1980s the tax rate for the wealthiest members of the population was reduced dramatically. This had the effect of actually increasing the amount of tax revenue the wealthy generated, both in absolute terms and relative to the amount of tax revenue provided by lower income brackets. Surely you have a cite for this. ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/119 "2005-11-03T02:56:30Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > I’d have no problem if he lied or altered evidence. I think the War in Iraq needed to be fought, and if the public needed to be given something flashy to get behind it, than so be it. The President of the United States needs to do what is necessary from a realistic perspective, he can’t be concerned with the opinions of the vox populi, who in general are not capable of understanding important geopolitical issues. > > It isn’t a crime to lie, even if you’re President of the United States. In fact I think it’s a _necessity_ in many instances. I have stumbled into the twilight zone. Hitler lied. Stalin lied. Bush lied. Good company? ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134/120 "2005-11-03T03:00:15Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > I’d have no problem if he lied or altered evidence. I think the War in Iraq needed to be fought, and if the public needed to be given something flashy to get behind it, than so be it. The President of the United States needs to do what is necessary from a realistic perspective, he can’t be concerned with the opinions of the vox populi, who in general are not capable of understanding important geopolitical issues. > > It isn’t a crime to lie, even if you’re President of the United States. In fact I think it’s a _necessity_ in many instances. Oh my fucking God! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-ago-today-bush-re-elected-happy-now-assholes/329134.md?page=7)