# "Year of the Monkey" NBA promo t-shirts: racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960 "2016-02-02T15:56:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/61 "2016-02-03T03:41:41Z")
Is it the Year of the Monkey? Acknowledging that is not racist. Assuming that as a black person, you are a monkey and a monkey is you, that’s racist. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/62 "2016-02-03T14:50:34Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > And you must know that its way different for someone to tell you to wear something, taking that choice away from you, than for you to wear it yourself as a statement. Nobody was making DeMarcus Cousins wear the shirt, or even requesting him to do so. The shirt was a giveaway for fans. I don’t fault the Kings, they did what they had to do after Cousins’ complaint. I don’t agree with his complaint. The NBA is making an effort to expand their brand globally and part of that is league-wide recognition of the Chinese New Year. I’ve seen NBA jerseys with Chinese characters on the front. This was the Kings’ contribution to that recognition, but clearly DeMarcus Cousins wasn’t involved in that operations meeting. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/63 "2016-02-03T15:24:11Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I looked at the t-shirt design, and was baffled at how anyone could see a racial connotation. [http://www.eurweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/year-of-the-monkey-tee.jpg](http://www.eurweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/year-of-the-monkey-tee.jpg) I don’t see the racist connotations, the picture seems to have obvious Asian overtones but fuck it. Seeing as how basketball is not a particularly important part of the Lunar New Year celebration, I think I’m OK if they don’t plaster monkeys all over the place. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/64 "2016-02-03T15:26:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Some of us are becoming more hairless with each passing year… Check your ears and eyebrows bro. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/65 "2016-02-03T16:23:21Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Didn’t the Sacramento Kings actually have a gorilla as a mascot at one point? Did people consider that racist? (Yes, I know a gorilla is, scientifically speaking, an ape rather than a monkey.) People are more closely related to apes than monkeys. [http://anthro.palomar.edu/primate/prim\_8.htm](http://anthro.palomar.edu/primate/prim_8.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/66 "2016-02-03T16:25:50Z")
It occurs to me: I wonder if this is yet another case where some people are responding to the thread title and others are responding to the text of the OP, which say two different things. I think there’s an important distinction to be drawn between things that are **racist** and things that are **racially insensitive**. Things that are racially insensitive aren’t racist, per se, but they can make people feel uncomfortable, or worse, because they _remind_ people of things that actually are racist, through unfortunate juxtapositions or associations—even though the people originating them may not have a racist bone in their bodies and may be too innocent and naive to see the racist connotations. For example, the big [KKK](http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/f/f4/Krusty_Komedy_Klassics.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130126135851) serving as the logo for _Krusty Komedy Klassics_ (“[that’s not good](http://40.media.tumblr.com/047a2e8393c9796b28e050e0bb3978a7/tumblr_ncflp78lpv1s5tlmxo1_500.png)”) isn’t racist, but it is racially insensitive. I don’t think any reasonable person can claim that the “Year of the Monkey” shirts themselves are racist. And that’s not what DeMarcus Cousins claimed. As the OP says, he “asked the team to pull the plug on the promotion because he found the shirts and the timing to be ‘ **racially insensitive**.’” ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/67 "2016-02-03T18:16:09Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Peoples opinions aren’t binding. I’m of the opinion that people need to get over it. So we are at an impasse as neither opinion can be proven to be right. What will happen is that people will find offense at everything and in time the concept will be so ridiculous that there will be a backlash against it. For what its worth, I agree that most people should get over little things that offend them. However, we know in the real world it doesn’t work that way, some people will refuse to let something go. Its up to those involved to decide how to proceed and the Kings made the pragmatic decision to keep their star player happy. That’s neither wrong or ignorant. As far as binding goes, you better believe that your boss or CEO can determine which opinions are binding for that place of business, or that the law can mandate it. You may not like it, but certain opinions are written in stone. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/68 "2016-02-03T20:12:06Z")
> [@Backwater Under\_Duck](#): > > Howard Cosell nearly lost his career to referring to a player as a “little monkey”. Scroll to “little monkey” comments. It’s way more sensitive than the post-racialists want it to be. > [@Fiveyearklurker](#): > > My oldest son’s (six years old) best friend for years now is black. I have three little boys, who I affectionately call “monkeys”. Because if you’ve ever been around a group of little boys under the age of six, they act pretty much exactly like monkeys. But, when my son’s best friend is around, I wouldn’t use that term. If my son’s best friend was white, I wouldn’t have a problem using the term. These two posts illustrate the problem I have with racial sensitivity. It requires different treatment for blacks and whites, and requires us to teach our children to treat blacks and whites differently. It subtly reinforces the otherness of black people and contradicts the more appropriate “treat everyone the same”. The end of racism isn’t, for example, avoiding any association of black people with monkeys. The end is when we’re all treated the same. Stuff like the OP is damaging because it adds noise that obscures actual racial bias or offensiveness. Every time I hear silliness like this, it makes it a tiny bit less likely that I’ll take the next incident seriously. It also makes me a tiny bit less concerned that there’s actual racism out there. After all, if this ridiculousness is what gets Cousin then I don’t imagine he’s experiencing much racism. At least not from within the Kings or the NBA. > [@YogSothoth](#): > > Was it during Black History Month? Ugh I forgot that observant black people don’t wear monkey related clothing during black history month. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/69 "2016-02-03T20:57:22Z")
> [@treis](#): > > These two posts illustrate the problem I have with racial sensitivity. It requires different treatment for blacks and whites, and requires us to teach our children to treat blacks and whites differently. It subtly reinforces the otherness of black people and contradicts the more appropriate “treat everyone the same”. The end of racism isn’t, for example, avoiding any association of black people with monkeys. The end is when we’re all treated the same. I mostly agree with what you’re saying, but one thing is fundamentally different about blacks and whites: their history. That won’t change, but (one hopes) it will, in time, fade into relative insignificance. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/70 "2016-02-03T22:20:55Z")
> [@treis](#): > > These two posts illustrate the problem I have with racial sensitivity. It requires different treatment for blacks and whites, and requires us to teach our children to treat blacks and whites differently. It subtly reinforces the otherness of black people and contradicts the more appropriate “treat everyone the same”. The end of racism isn’t, for example, avoiding any association of black people with monkeys. The end is when we’re all treated the same. Ah, the good old majestic equality fallacy. As Anatole France noted: “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.” There are three basic problems with your argument. 1. Treating everyone exactly the same is not actually equality by any reasonable measure. To use a less charged example, most would not deny accommodations to disabled people under the guise of equal treatment. No one is that bothered by laws required people to give their seats to old people on public transportation. No one is annoyed when you treat your family differently than you do a stranger, and no one cares that you give more respect to respected member of society than you do a less respected person. No one balks at a law that treats children differently from adults, or one that recognizes that every death caused by another is not murder. People (and situations) are different, and treating them differently is perfectly fine so long as they are given respect and consideration. 2. You are pointing out the most innocuous examples of racial discrimination to argue they are what’s impeding equality when it’s actually the opposite. Those you are chastising are actually not the people who are bad apples. They are not the cops shooting unarmed Black men in the back, or the lawyers dismissing Black jurors are wildly disproportionate rates, or the bosses throwing out resumes with Black sounding names. How about you direct your umbrage to those people and others rather than someone just going out of their way to not offend a child. 3. Willful blindness to our differences, whether they be race, creed, color, nationality, gender, etc. is not the end and it’s generally not progress. Differences exist because we all come from different places that are informed by who we are. Race plays into that because it affects so many different facets of life for minorities. Pretending those things don’t exist, aren’t important, or don’t often require different treatment is just foolish. It’s never going to happen. You are never gonna go on some dating site and see the only criterion be “human”. It’s just nonsense to make people feel better about largely ill-gotten gains and ingrained preference. > [@treis](#): > > It also makes me a tiny bit less concerned that there’s actual racism out there. After all, if this ridiculousness is what gets Cousin then I don’t imagine he’s experiencing much racism. At least not from within the Kings or the NBA. The above is just complete bullshit and reflects the fact htat you are looking for reasons to dismiss racism. You don’t have to look hard for racism, so the idea that one “questionable” claim of racial insensitivity, no racism, moves the needle for you only shows you have your thumb on the scale. Further, you know nothing of what Cousins has experienced, but the smart money is that he gets exposed to far more racism by virtue of his position in society. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/71 "2016-02-03T22:44:51Z")
Do fabricated allegations of rape weaken the environment for prosecuting actual allegations of rape? This is like that. Racism is bad. Monkey Tshirts celebrating the lunar new year and the Chinese year of the Monkey are not. It’s like when people say they really liked Star Wars Episode I. Sure it’s their opinion but I can’t take their opinions about any other movie seriously because what we think of good and bad movies is not calibrated in the same realm of reality. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/72 "2016-02-03T22:48:35Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Ah, the good old majestic equality fallacy. As Anatole France noted: > > “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.” > > There are three basic problems with your argument. > > 1. Treating everyone exactly the same is not actually equality by any reasonable measure. To use a less charged example, most would not deny accommodations to disabled people under the guise of equal treatment. No one is that bothered by laws required people to give their seats to old people on public transportation. No one is annoyed when you treat your family differently than you do a stranger, and no one cares that you give more respect to respected member of society than you do a less respected person. No one balks at a law that treats children differently from adults, or one that recognizes that every death caused by another is not murder. People (and situations) are different, and treating them differently is perfectly fine so long as they are given respect and consideration. Are you saying black people are different than white people in some fundamental way? > [@brickbacon](#): > > 1. You are pointing out the most innocuous examples of racial discrimination to argue they are what’s impeding equality when it’s actually the opposite. Those you are chastising are actually not the people who are bad apples. They are not the cops shooting unarmed Black men in the back, or the lawyers dismissing Black jurors are wildly disproportionate rates, or the bosses throwing out resumes with Black sounding names. How about you direct your umbrage to those people and others rather than someone just going out of their way to not offend a child. False dichotomy. I am perfectly capable of directing my umbrage at many different people. The rest of your post is simply unsupported assertions about the world and me which doesn’t rate a reply. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/73 "2016-02-03T23:10:19Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > It’s like when people say they really liked Star Wars Episode I. Sure it’s their opinion but I can’t take their opinions about any other movie seriously because what we think of good and bad movies is not calibrated in the same realm of reality. I agree. Episode 1 was totally racist! ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/74 "2016-02-04T03:46:22Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Are you saying black people are different than white people in some fundamental way? No, I am saying the black experience is fundamentally different for almost all of us, and that those differences, in both directions, warrant consideration that requires more that mere platitudes about equality. > [@treis](#): > > False dichotomy. I am perfectly capable of directing my umbrage at many different people. Okay, let me be clearer: they don’t deserve any umbrage. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/75 "2016-02-04T03:54:18Z")
It’s as racist as this picture: [![](https://www.jotdown.es/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/U2161050.jpg) ](https://www.jotdown.es/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/U2161050.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/76 "2016-02-04T12:24:38Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Makes sense to me. If I were a black guy- particularly one that’s in the media a lot - I wouldn’t really want to wear a t-shirt with a monkey on it, given the history of the racist usage of that imagery with black people. That doesn’t mean that all monkey pictures are racist, or that Chinese astrology is racist, or whatever other strawman has shown up in this thread. It’s an innocent gesture with some unfortunate, but unintended, connotations. > > Since it’s just a bullshit t-shirt giveaway, and not anything actually important, the Kings decided to just stop the giveaway. > > Naturally, this will not stop the usual herd of bloviating white people showing up in this thread explain at length why this is another example of black people being stupid. So the Chinese have to deal with the fact that their multi thousand year old tradition has to take a back seat to Black History Month due to an unfortunate symbolism clash every 12 years? How about we move Black History Month to another month, maybe January, to coincide with Martin Luther King’s birthday? Everybody wins. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/77 "2016-02-04T12:50:53Z")
Colorblind ideology is a form of racism— [Colorblind Ideology Is a Form of Racism | Psychology Today](https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/culturally-speaking/201112/colorblind-ideology-is-form-racism) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/78 "2016-02-04T13:38:07Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Treating everyone exactly the same is not actually equality by any reasonable measure. To use a less charged example, most would not deny accommodations to disabled people under the guise of equal treatment. No one is that bothered by laws required people to give their seats to old people on public transportation… > > No one balks at a law that treats children differently from adults, or one that recognizes that every death caused by another is not murder. People (and situations) are different, and treating them differently is perfectly fine so long as they are given respect and consideration. > [@treis](#): > > Are you saying black people are different than white people in some fundamental way? Apparently so - black people, or at least black players in the NBA, apparently lack the capabilities of the average adult, and should be treated as we do children, the disabled, or accused murderers. > [@brickbacon](#): > > No one is annoyed when you treat your family differently than you do a stranger, and no one cares that you give more respect to respected member of society than you do a less respected person. This part I am not sure about - either players in the NBA are more deserving of respect than the average Asian person, or black NBA players ought to be treated as part of my family. Fortunately, part of my family is Asian, so I know how to treat them. So Demarcus, quit complaining about nothing and get your coat - I need help shoveling out the driveway. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/79 "2016-02-04T17:17:03Z")
Serious question: If the NHL San Jose Sharks had the same t-shirt giveaway on the same night, would we have heard about it? Would it have been ok? ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960/80 "2016-02-04T17:26:08Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > So the Chinese have to deal with the fact that their multi thousand year old tradition has to take a back seat to Black History Month due to an unfortunate symbolism clash every 12 years? How about we move Black History Month to another month, maybe January, to coincide with Martin Luther King’s birthday? Everybody wins. Or they could just not put a monkey on the shirt. For example, I went to the Wizards-Warriors game last night, and the teams decided to celebrate CNY by using characters on their jerseys among other things. It’s not an either or thing. > [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Serious question: If the NHL San Jose Sharks had the same t-shirt giveaway on the same night, would we have heard about it? Would it have been ok? Probably not, but I am not sure what you point is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/year-of-the-monkey-nba-promo-t-shirts-racist/744960.md?page=5)