# Yelling at each other about 9/11 (Split from the "How has Trump pissed you off today" thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 9, 2024, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482 "2024-08-09T02:14:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/181 "2024-08-11T04:30:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not really. Starting with you, Czarcasm. I used to think you were wise, but you’ve shown your true colours. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/182 "2024-08-11T04:31:13Z")
On the plus side, at least one of us looks smarter now. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/183 "2024-08-11T04:32:03Z")
You’re not wrong PL. It’s hard to just change your beliefs when confronted with new information. May take while to absorb. Anyways, thanks for being polite in your observations. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/184 "2024-08-11T04:37:25Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > When reasonable people make errors they apologize and retract their claims based on those mistakes That’s what I do. I’ve had me arse handed to me a couple/few times, and I have modified my opinions based on new (to me) facts. > [@Biffster](#): > > It’s hard to just change your beliefs when confronted with new information. No, it isn’t. You evaluate the new information, and when you find it factual you change your beliefs. Simple. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/185 "2024-08-11T04:41:24Z")
Add in the fact that none of this information is actually new or hard to find, and that Biffster has supposedly had these “questions” for a very long time, and some people might just jump to some very obvious conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/186 "2024-08-11T05:22:13Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Here is a video discussing the extensive National Institutes of Science and Technology analysis It’s the National Institute of _Standards_ and Technology. I used to work there. I had nothing to do with the WTC collapse investigation. (Or, did I? I could tell you what really happened, but then I’d have to mock you for any disclosure of my information as you being a CT nut. That, or send the Men in Black.) ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/187 "2024-08-11T05:25:39Z")
There’s no rule that says you have to apologize or capitulate. There are ones here who will goad you til you respond in anger. Those kinds of posters are always hanging around for low hanging fruit to snap at. 9/11 is that low hanging fruit. I think from reading old threads(which is not required, btw) that it was done to death and there was much misinformation and lots of information that was good. It’s hard to parse. Unless you’re willing to read a million overlapping posts and cross thread talk. I suggest you find a credible source outside of this board to study. After all some posters just state opinions on the subject which can be misconstrued as the reality. Some subjects _can_ be opinions/feelings, others have real facts. Best just stay out of the thread all together. As long as you’re here there are those who won’t quit. Ever. They get a perverse pleasure in seeing their words hurt people. Just drop out of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/188 "2024-08-11T05:33:44Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Sorry, I missed your question. I will look when I have a chance. Thank you for responding. I want to clarify that when I said “(Not that I"m surprised,” I was referring to Jackie’s correctness, not your tardiness. I admit I WAS pretty frustrated, though, and still am. Please post only when you’ve read the articles linked to in this thread and watched the videos.Then if you have specific questions about any of what you’ve read/watched, you can ask them here. I look forward to seeing them. I think this will help the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/189 "2024-08-11T05:36:24Z")
Teacher is in the house. Whoo hoo! 😊 ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/190 "2024-08-11T05:36:36Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Best just stay out of the thread all together. As long as you’re here there are those who won’t quit. Ever. > They get a perverse pleasure in seeing their words hurt people. > > Just drop out of the thread. Good advice. I never asked for a thread in the first place, and I never anticipated such animosity. Your suggestions are appreciated, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/191 "2024-08-11T05:36:40Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Perhaps. But the footage I’ve seen sure looked similar to what a controlled demolition looks like. It does to some extent, but that is just because except for these ones, controlled demolitions are the only time you have seen large buildings collapse. So what you are really saying is that those buildings collapsing look like buildings collapsing, Most peoples assumption of falling tall structures comes from playing with blocks as kids making a tall tower and watching it tip over, or seeing a tall tree tip over. So seeing a building just go straight down seems counter intuitive, and so must be by design. But really coming straight down is the most natural thing in the world. Sky scrapers are massive and gravity points down. There are hundreds of thousands of tons all of which wants nothing more than to plunge straight down to the center of the earth, or at least as close as it can get. It is only the miracle of engineering that keeps this from happening. If that engineering fails then down it goes, and it keeps going straight down until the ground stops it. Its not going to go off to the side unless there is something that pushes it off to the side. In the case of a tree or blocks the structural integrity the forces are relatively small and the strucuture is very solid so that it in order to maintain its shape the structure itself can provide some force to push it to the side to that it topples over. But the building doesn’t have the structural integrity to proved the force required to move all that mass to the side. Rather than tip to the side its going to disintegrate and fall down. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/192 "2024-08-11T05:38:00Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Then if you have specific questions about any of what you’ve read/watched, you can ask them here. I look forward to seeing them. I think this will help the discussion. I appreciate the encouragement. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/193 "2024-08-11T06:58:34Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Teacher is in the house. Whoo hoo! Where’s your hall pass, young lady? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/194 "2024-08-11T09:22:51Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I’m not promoting conspiracy theories, but I do find it awfully strange how there was no wreckage in either Shanksville or DC, that little shitty squashed Coke can picture notwithstanding. Post #4 provides some detail on the wreckage found at all three sites. Yes, you are promoting a conspiracy theory by refusing to acknowledge the facts provided to you. > [@Biffster](#): > > Right back at ya. Just because someone doesn’t find an explanation believable does not make them a CP FFS Refusing to understand non-negotiable physical reality, however, does. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > It is if you keep asking the same questions over and over again until someone, _anyone_, tells you what you want to hear. I believe the kids these days call that “JAQing off”… > [@Biffster](#): > > I’m not suggesting a conspiracy; I’m saying that was pretty fucking weird Saying “it’s pretty fucking weird” about one of the most heavily investigated tragedies of the early 21st century IS suggesting a conspiracy. Are you a paid to do this shit or just that stupid? > [@Biffster](#): > > The only footage I’ve seen is from the street, where it collapses into one neat footprint in about 10 seconds. Learn how to use a search engine. > [@Biffster](#): > > WTC7 had not been hit by a plane like the other two, although it was hit by some falling debris, but still it collapsed in a heap, all 47 storeys of it. I just find it hard to believe, and that’s my right. The Plainly Difficult YouTube channel specializes in short documentaries examining disasters large and small. Including building collapses. So here’s [one](https://youtu.be/W3NkMvmtwv4?feature=shared) (If you don’t know how links work click on the blue word). There are plenty more. Also, more heavily featured in the news was the collapse of Surfside condominium on June 24, 2021. [Here’s a video of the actual collapse](https://youtu.be/7KNwMSuwQ8w?feature=shared). Learn how to use YouTube. Yes, you have a right to be a complete idiot. In this area of the forum we also have the right to call you an ignorant tool. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/195 "2024-08-11T09:53:40Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Perhaps. But the footage I’ve seen sure looked similar to what a controlled demolition looks like. Just saying. And…? Building collapses work because of this physical force called _gravity_, which applied during both controlled and uncontrolled destruction. > [@Biffster](#): > > Feel free to ignore them if they bother you. If enough people don’t respond, the thread will disappear. But don’t be such a jerk about it in the meantime. Oh, are your _feelings_ hurt? Poor widdle muddle-brain. We don’t have respect for people who insist on being ignorant and/or are deliberately stirring the pot. > [@Biffster](#): > > Can you name any other steel and concrete office buildings in history that collapsed due to fire damage? Nice how you ignore that the 9/11 buildings ALSO included damage from either being hit by a large object moving at high speed, or damage from debris from nearby collapsing buildings. In addition to fire. The impacts are important - in the case of the WTC the impact alone destroyed structural columns that helped support the building and knocked fireproofing off steel structures, making them more vulnerable to fire. Stop fucking minimizing what the hell happened that day. Sorry if your tiny intellect has trouble thinking about things that big. > [@Biffster](#): > > I’m not sure why some people get their panties in a bunch about asking questions, anyway. Asking questions? No problem. Asking the same goddamned questions over and over because you clearly aren’t listening to the answers or you enjoy stirring the pot or you are determined to remain and ignorant tool is another matter entirely. Also: > [@Mikkel](#): > > Well, and JAQing off is implying that one asks questions for ones own pleasure and not to get answers. > [@Biffster](#): > > Thank you for a mostly respectful reply Which is more respect than you deserve. > [@Biffster](#): > > I thought the Straight Dope was a cite for intelligent conversation, but hoo boy, do some people get their panties in a bunch on this particular topic. It is, but at a certain point actually intelligent people get tired of putting up with bullshit from people who can’t accept reality. > [@Biffster](#): > > To question the “official narrative” does not make one a conspiracy theorist, no matter how much some of you think it does. Questioning an “official narrative” does not my you a conspiracy theorist… refusing to accept actual facts, real evidence, and the laws of physics and chemistry does. > [@Biffster](#): > > We know there were 19 hijackers, all from Saudi Arabia Wrong. 15 from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, one from Egypt, one from Lebannon. Do some actual fucking research. > [@Biffster](#): > > we know that this was the first time an attack like this was carried out on US soil. [1993 World Trade Center Bombing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing). The building complex had been targeted before. Here’s another terrorist building collpase: [Oklahoma City bombing 1995](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing). Fucking hell you’re stupid and ignorant as fuck. > [@Biffster](#): > > A person can’t even ask questions, for fuck’s sake. You can ask questions, but when you make it obvious you have zero interest in the answers we’re not going to be kind. You want facts? We’ll give you facts. But we’re not going to coddle you if you can accept reality. > [@Biffster](#): > > I have not heard a number of ideas before and I would like to investigate them further Then leave this thread and GO LOOK THEM UP. > [@Biffster](#): > > I have lost a lot of respect for some people I used to look up to. If you stop and think about it (assuming you’re capable of that sort of thing) it’s also clear we don’t respect you. It’s not the asking of questions, it’s the refusal to accept facts and engage with reality. > [@Biffster](#): > > If you can’t handle any questions at all, and I’m sorry, but I was not part of the conversation 23 FUCKING YEARS AGO, Wow, yes, there’s been a quarter century since that. Newflash: some of us here are old enough to buy beer. In fact, some of us here were old enough to buy beer on that very day. We’ve been having this conversation for _twenty three fucking years_. Also some of us here knew people who died that day. Some of us knew people who had to flee for their lives that day. At least one of us here _was there on that day._ So get it through your head that for some people here this isn’t an idle conversation about something that happened long ago but an event in our own lives that, even if we weren’t present in Manhattan or Washington DC or Pennsylvania that day DID in fact impact our own lives. Then you come here saying it was all a fucking lie even after we try to give you evidence and explain. Maybe you’re too young to remember what happened directly, but when you refuse to hear the answers given you we’re going to get pissed. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/196 "2024-08-11T09:54:43Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > maybe you’re not as open-minded as you think you are. There’s “open-minded” and then there is “your brain just fell out of your skull onto the floor”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/197 "2024-08-11T10:09:32Z")
I used to have students like this. Me: “You wrote here that WW2 was caused by [wrong thing].” Them: “Yeah.” Me: “Well that’s not quite right, though it’s an understandable mistake. Let’s talk ab-” Them: “That’s my opinion. Opinions can’t be wrong.” Me: “Okay, we need to back up and have a conversation about what an opinion is.” Everybody has a ‘right’ to believe whatever they want, but stubbornly holding onto an observably incorrect set of facts isn’t noble and certainly isn’t a sign of being ‘open minded.’ It’s a sign of willful ignorance, which is **the only bad kind of ignorance.** And the whole thing about refusing to ‘capitulate’ to mean posters by absorbing factual information is either peak trolling or peak childishness. Probably a bit of both. Probably a **lot** of both. Why is this thread open? Is this an object lesson about the good sense of the tired topics rule? I thought that was provably true based on the dozens of previous threads with posters beating their collective heads against concrete walls like the jet in that test video upthread. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/198 "2024-08-11T11:29:15Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Why is this thread open? Is this an object lesson about the good sense of the tired topics rule? Well, it is open because @Miller relocated this hijack into its own thread: > [@Miller](#): > > Moderating] > I’ve moved this hijack to its own thread. I’m also locking it for now, under the “tired topics” rule. > Although pending a check-in with the other mods, I may reopen it, given that it seems there’s quite a few people still interested in talking about it, and the Pit seems a reasonable place for dealing with this particular brand of idiocy. > [/Moderating] > [@Miller](#): > > Moderating > Reopened. Have fun. > [/Moderating] And frankly, if @Biffster was posing a novel theory, or even asking informed questions about how the impacts and burning jet fuel caused the buildings to collapse, it might be worthwhile. But despite claiming to have “looked many times over the years” he asks questions which are ill-informed and makes assertions that are flatly contradicted by direct evidence and expert analysis, all backed up by @Biffster’s assertion that “I’m allowed to feel that way and I don’t need to apologize for it.” He has yet to present a single issue or ‘question’ that isn’t stock September 11 conspiranoiast playbook, and if he’d actually spent years honestly looking into the events—which are as well documented as any day in history—he would be aware of this. Which either makes him a sealioning troll, impenetrably stupid, or quite possibly both. I don’t know why this tread is still open other than the sheer bloodymindedness of repeatedly trying to disabuse @Biffster of basic errors in established fact which he has shown himself to be impenetrable against, but I think it has served the purpose of demonstrating that baseless conspiracies never die not because there remain unanswered questions but because the people ‘just asking questions’ aren’t interested in factual analysis and the technical consensus of experts who have thoroughly examined the evidence. They just want to have fun watching the churn of people scrambling to correct layer after layer of misapprehensions and wrong or misconstrued ‘facts’. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/199 "2024-08-11T11:39:33Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I don’t know why this tread is still open The Elder Covenant says that every seventh year the mods are required to provide us a sacrifice. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482/200 "2024-08-11T11:44:19Z")
This is the second thread recently opened to cater to a troll, IMHO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yelling-at-each-other-about-9-11-split-from-the-how-has-trump-pissed-you-off-today-thread/1005482.md?page=11)