# Yellowstone geyser guy **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 2, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570 "2016-08-02T18:26:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/21 "2016-08-03T11:31:10Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > It’s tragic, but it makes it hard to sympathize with someone that ignores warming signs that look like[this.](http://pics.fattybeagle.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=167&g2_serialNumber=2) That’s an extremely apt typo. If it was a typo. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/22 "2016-08-03T12:03:31Z")
I was about to post almost the exact same thing. “Warming signs”! ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/23 "2016-08-03T12:25:43Z")
I was in Yellowstone in 89 and again around 95. The guy jumping in after the dog was often heard circulating among the tourist groups. As I was on a school trip, we had professors with us and they told us about how apparently solid-looking ground could actually be just a thin crust of minerals on top of the boiling water. So don’t even step off the boardwalk, or you could lose your foot to boiling acid water, if not more. How would you have liked to be the guy who had to map out the safe route for the boardwalk? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/24 "2016-08-03T12:35:01Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > How would you have liked to be the guy who had to map out the safe route for the boardwalk? You mean like [this](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/55/b2/ba/55b2ba562893a7e2d7d99470c683ea34.jpg)? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/25 "2016-08-03T12:58:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Rangers tried to reach the site but quit “due to the extreme nature and futility of it all,” Reid said, referring to the high temperature and acidic nature of the spring. This is the first time I’ve heard of body recovery operations being halted because of the “futility of it all.” ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/26 "2016-08-03T13:57:00Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > This is the first time I’ve heard of body recovery operations being halted because of the “futility of it all.” Without using that exact term, a body was left in a sink hole in Florida because it couldn’t be safely retrieved. But I am guessing boiling acid (or base) is probably much harder to deal with than a hole in the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/27 "2016-08-03T14:06:05Z")
Let’s back up a sec, here. Much of the above discussion treats the water in the Yellowstone pools as something akin to laboratory acid, which is nonsense. Yes, I understand that surface pH is very low - often 2-4 - and the very high temperatures accelerate acidic decomposition. But pH is one thing and molarity is another - you can safely drink things in the very low pH range as long as the acid molarity is low. There’s also [this interesting report](https://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/1303/report.pdf) that says the hot springs pH is only low near the surface, largely from CO2, and deeper waters are near-neutral. Can someone knowledgeable put this in perspective, with reasonable cites? Isn’t “boiling acid” a little - _heh, heh_ - strong in describing these waters? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/28 "2016-08-03T14:16:20Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > A few years back I was in Yellowstone for the week before it closed for the winter. Park was very empty. Saw a fair number of idiots leave the boardwalks to look down into a geyser or hot spring - I guess they thought that if there were no rangers around, it must be safe. Also saw a guy walking up to take a closeup of a full-grown bull elk who was guarding his harem. With a tripod. Fortunately (maybe unfortunately) a ranger stopped him before the elk had a chance to kick his ass. > > If it weren’t for the rangers, the number of Darwin awards that could be earned in Yellowstone would be staggering… Yellowstone is just the tip of the…er…iceberg. I wish I had written down all of the stupid things I’ve seen tourists do in our national parks, forests and monuments. Primarily, it’s people endangering their lives for the sake of getting just that perfect angle for a photo, but it’s also those who deliberately damage, deface and trash our national treasures. In Yellowstone, I saw a man tiptoeing across an area of thin crust. Also in Yellowstone, I saw a woman trying to sneak closer to a mature black bear, camera poised. Rinse and repeat for elk and bison. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve seen people step over guard rails in order to get closer to the edge of a crumbling precipice: Grand Canyon, Canyonlands, Badlands, you name it. And every time they succeed in not dying, it just makes them bolder. I saw one man this year who dragged his son beyond the barrier and up on top of a boulder on the edge of Black Canyon of The Gunnison. He stood up there, bragging about what a man he was, while his son literally crouched and whimpered in terror. The urge to push the fucker off was only surmounted by my own fear of getting that close to the edge. Another woman was delighting in terrifying her boyfriend by doing the same thing along the cliff edge and mocking him for pleading with her not to do it. Stupid fuckers abound, and I have zero sympathy for them. I DO have sympathy for the poor bastards who have to put their own lives in danger to try to either rescue or recover the bodies of these assholes. If you’re reading this and are one of the large mass of morons who do these sorts of things, JUST FUCKING STOP IT! ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/29 "2016-08-03T15:22:07Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > That’s an extremely apt typo. If it was a typo. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/30 "2016-08-03T15:30:48Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Let’s back up a sec, here. > > Much of the above discussion treats the water in the Yellowstone pools as something akin to laboratory acid, which is nonsense. Yes, I understand that surface pH is very low - often 2-4 - and the very high temperatures accelerate acidic decomposition. But pH is one thing and molarity is another - you can safely drink things in the very low pH range as long as the acid molarity is low. Go back to my chicken in the slow cooker analogy - even if the fluid is neutral, floating for hours or days in it at boiling or near boiling temperatures is going to cook, tenderize, and disintegrate a human body. The acid (if any) helps the process along but even without it you won’t wind up with much body left. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/31 "2016-08-03T15:40:29Z")
No argument… I make crock pot chicken often. Just raising a spocky at “boiling acid,” which would seem to be as accurate here as for a hot cup of diner coffee… ---
**Author:** ![cwniles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@cwniles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwniles)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/32 "2016-08-03T15:46:44Z")
One of my favorites was the footage from a few years back of the guy on Half Dome in Yosemite who, after fumbling with and dropping his phone, proceeded to crawl under the cable and out onto the very steep granite to retrieve it. All while numerous people can be heard in the background imploring the moron to stop. Only thing that would have made the footage better is if this knucklehead had plummeted to his death…obviously I don’t really mean that but it would have been rather poetic. As far as calling it “boiling acid”, I am no expert but the acid part, yeah, that is hyperbole but boiling? Boiling is a pretty apt term even though it may not be the entire body of water “boiling” but rather areas of high temperatures within the body of water not to mention the uncontrolled method in which the pools are heated which of course results in unexpected temperature fluctuations. Were you to fall in, the ph level would be of no concern. The temperature though, well, yeah, that is going to be a problem. Once again, no expert here but in the Yellowstone geyser basin there are many areas covered by a thin mineral “crust” that will not bear an adults weight without collapsing and dropping said adult into the “boiling acid” 😉 Many accidents are the result of the crust near the edge of a geyser breaking. This would be a major concern and obstacle in any rescue/recovery operation. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/33 "2016-08-03T15:46:55Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > There’s also [this interesting report](https://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/1303/report.pdf) that says the hot springs pH is only low near the surface, largely from CO2, and deeper waters are near-neutral. The reports dates data collection from 1960-1965. Accurate in the day, geothermal features in the park regularly change. Features come and go, change in duration and intensity, and change in chemical composition. [This report is from 2005](http://www.rcn.montana.edu/Publications/Pdf/2005/Nordstrom.pdf). It covers the chemistry of thermal outflows. Maybe not the details of what exists in hot pools but probably sufficient for this discussion. An interest note about the Norris Geyser Basin: > [@](#): > > Norris Geyser Basin is the hottest, oldest, and most dynamic of Yellowstone’s thermal areas. The highest temperature yet recorded in any geothermal area in Yellowstone was measured in a scientific drill hole at Norris: 459°F (237°C) just 1,087 feet (326 meters) below the surface! There are very few thermal features at Norris under the boiling point (199°F at this elevation). > > Norris shows evidence of having had thermal features for at least 115,000 years. The features in the basin change daily, with frequent disturbances from seismic activity and water fluctuations. The vast majority of the waters at Norris are acidic, including acid geysers which are very rare. Steamboat Geyser, the tallest geyser in the world (300 to 400 feet) and Echinus Geyser (pH 3.5 or so) are the most popular features. [Norris Geyser Basin - Yellowstone National Park (U.S. National Park Service)](https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/norrisplan.htm) The basin also has a unique thermal disturbance: > [@](#): > > Periodically, Norris Geyser Basin undergoes a large-scale basin-wide thermal disturbance lasting a few days to a few weeks. Water levels fluctuate, temperatures and pH change, color changes, and eruptive patterns change throughout the basin. No one is sure what causes a thermal disturbance. It might be caused by a massive fluctuation in the underground reservoirs providing water to the basin’s features. In the fall, this may happen when surface water levels decrease, causing a decrease in pressure in deeper, underground thermal water. This may allow the deeper thermal waters to mix and flow to the ground surface. [NPS - Page In-Progress](https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/norrisfaq.htm) ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/34 "2016-08-03T16:44:41Z")
> [@cwniles](#): > > One of my favorites was the footage from a few years back of the guy on Half Dome in Yosemite who, after fumbling with and dropping his phone, proceeded to crawl under the cable and out onto the very steep granite to retrieve it. All while numerous people can be heard in the background imploring the moron to stop. Only thing that would have made the footage better is if this knucklehead had plummeted to his death…obviously I don’t really mean that but it would have been rather poetic. Can you post a link? I can’t find that video. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/35 "2016-08-03T17:44:27Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > The reports dates data collection from 1960-1965. Accurate in the day, geothermal features in the park regularly change. Features come and go, change in duration and intensity, and change in chemical composition.[URL=“[NPS - Page In-Progress](https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/norrisfaq.htm)”] Certainly… on a fairly small scale of change. The reports you cite, despite being an invisible blink of an eye later (in geologic terms) still just say that the average outflow is around pH 3.5. Nothing about acidic strength, and outflows are different in that they can pick up a higher concentration of solutes that dissipate in a standing pool. Anyone got a cite for “pools of boiling acid”? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cwniles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@cwniles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwniles)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/36 "2016-08-03T18:36:59Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > Can you post a link? I can’t find that video. Sadly, no. It seems the internet has failed. Can’t say for certain but it was approx. 5 to 8 years ago I saw it. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/37 "2016-08-03T19:27:12Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > I was in Yellowstone in 89 and again around 95. The guy jumping in after the dog was often heard circulating among the tourist groups. As I was on a school trip, we had professors with us and they told us about how apparently solid-looking ground could actually be just a thin crust of minerals on top of the boiling water. So don’t even step off the boardwalk, or you could lose your foot to boiling acid water, if not more. This happened to me near a hot spring in Utah. I broke through the crust and found myself not-quite-nuts-deep in boiling water. My uncle was able to pull me out quickly, but by the time I got my muddy clothes off I had lost a 2" x 4" patch of skin from my ankle. I’m just lucky the water wasn’t deeper and that I had someone in arm’s reach to help me. > [@](#): > > How would you have liked to be the guy who had to map out the safe route for the boardwalk? He probably only stood on patches of grass. Grass won’t grow on the thin crust. My mistake was having screwed up depth perception because I was a kid wearing my eyeglasses for the first time, so a hop from one grass clump to another was very poorly aimed. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/38 "2016-11-16T03:38:12Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > It was the next day or so that park rangers said they were not going to attempt to retrieve his body - because for one thing “no remains had been found.” Both stories are relatively short and there’s been no followup that I’ve found. > > This is puzzling in so many ways. The geysers, are, for the most part, no bigger than swimming pools. Even with some depth, the water tends to be very clear. How could a fully dressed man’s body disappear within one? How are they sure he’s even in there and this is not some kind of elaborate hoax or ruse? [Here’s another one](http://nypost.com/2016/11/15/man-dies-trying-to-hot-pot-in-yellowstone-hot-spring/): > [@](#): > > Search and rescue rangers spotted Colin Scott’s body in the pool the day of the accident, but a lightning storm prevented recovery. > > The next day, workers could not find any remains in the churning, acidic water, Veress said. > > “In very short order, there was a significant amount of dissolving,” Veress said. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/39 "2016-11-16T04:31:36Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > …But pH is one thing and molarity is another - you can safely drink things in the very low pH range as long as the acid molarity is low. I know this is a few months old, but just to point out: pH is one thing and molarity is… the same thing. The “acid molarity” is precisely what pH measures, it is (-log) molarity of hydrogen ions. If you reduce the molarity by dilution with neutral water, you raise the pH (on a -log scale). ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570/40 "2016-11-16T05:33:49Z")
And a pH of 3 is acidic…about the same acidity as orange juice. So not enough for cartoon-style instant dissolving. But enough to sting if you get some in your eye. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yellowstone-geyser-guy/761570.md?page=3)