# Yep..people are staying away from FAHRENHEIT 9/11 in droves. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 26, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324 "2004-06-26T16:32:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Middlea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@Middlea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Middlea)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/81 "2004-06-28T19:46:17Z")
Was anyone else expecting during the movie when all the convoluted ties with Bushco and Saudis were rattled off… “…and who appeared in _insert movie here_ with Kevin Bacon”? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/82 "2004-06-28T20:19:32Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Someone mentioned that Bush was “on vacation” more than Clinton or Bush Sr. were at comparable times during their terms of office. Here’s a [link to the breakdown as of August 2003](http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20031001.html). By then GWB had already taken more “vacation” days than Clinton and Carter had taken in their 12 years in office _combined_. Make that _two_ raised eyebrows. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/83 "2004-06-28T21:47:24Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Here’s a [link to the breakdown as of August 2003](http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20031001.html). By then GWB had already taken more “vacation” days than Clinton and Carter had taken in their 12 years in office _combined_. > > Make that _two_ raised eyebrows. Of course, if either Carter or Clinton had taken that much time off _in their first year in office_, the Conservatives/Republicans would understand and defend it. They’d know those guys would be “working” anyway, and wouldn’t hold it against them. Right? _cue Twilight Zone theme_ ---
**Author:** ![Spree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@Spree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spree)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/84 "2004-06-29T01:46:14Z")
[www.boxofficemojo.com](http://www.boxofficemojo.com) has the weekend actuals in and the numbers have been adjusted up, from $21.8 to $23.9 million for the weekend, $24 million total. The average was a whopping $27,558 per screen. Woohoo! ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/85 "2004-06-29T06:02:26Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > to a couple of the posters in this thread: > > going into a sold out movie by purchasing a ticket to a different movie **equals** being an jerk. > > Someone showed up on time and paid for a seat to that show, and you took it from them. > > Sorry, but buy a ticket for the next available show, and come back when its playing. > > And if you want to make your movie, get there earlier. You may be right that in this case, in some theaters, walking into a theater showing F911 with another ticket might have taken a seat from a customer paying for that show. But probably not. I used to be a theater manager and ticketing systems are usually set for a number slightly lower than the actual seat count. These unsold seats are called “house seats” and in addition to preventing accidental overselling, they let a manager seat last-minute VIPs or other special (read: irate) customers. They also allow for contingencies such as broken seats. So one or two people slipping into a show probably won’t displace others. Of course, if you slipped in an later see someone standing around looking for a seat, because there aren’t any left, you should let your conscience be your guide. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/86 "2004-06-29T07:13:57Z")
I heard that, due to the sold-out nature of the film, a number of theaters are checking ticket stubs for **Fahrenheit 9/11** before letting people in. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/87 "2004-06-29T14:53:06Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > I must have missed that part. I remember that some members of the bin Laden _family_ were guests, but not Osama. See? It worked on ME! Moore’s method of overlapping images of Osama with those of the Bushes entertaining rich Arabs brainwashed me into believing that they met! Damn Michael Moore! Damn him to HELL!!! ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/88 "2004-06-29T16:05:58Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Amazing how few theaters in Alabama are showing this movie. > > That sort of thing, combined with the news that [the Carlyle Group has just purchased Loew’s Theaters](http://washington.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2004/06/21/daily4.html) gives me pause. (The Carlyle Group being one of the conservative power bases criticized by Moore in his film.) Loews is one of the few circuits that really opened the film. They had plenty of playdates. I work in film distribution for anoter film company so I know who is and who isn’t playing it. (but I won’t speak as to who isn’t) Just a few words on per screen average. It’s really not a very useful number for a comparison between two films for several reasons. One is that a limited release film like F911 showing in the major markets is showing at theatres with a higher average ticket price. Just as some commented that they will have to pay $10 instead of $6 for a local theatre. Another is that comparing to a film like Harry Potter is not very fair because HP draws many children to the show and those sell at reduced prices. So really if you have films on a similar number of screens that attract a similar audience then a per screen average is useful, but then you would just use the total gross. Per screen average is useful to see how well the theatres are doing with a film. Clearly a theatre would rather have a screen gross 24 grand over a weekend then 8 or 9 grand. If you look at the opening weekend for Troy it looks pretty good at 45 million, but the per screen average was terrible so the theatres had a bad deal there. I hope to see F911 this week. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/89 "2004-06-29T23:05:46Z")
I just saw it at a special showing at the American Library Association conference in Orlando Sunday night (man, talk about preaching to the choir!). Good response from that crowd, of course. I’ve heard about people “booing and hissing” at things before, but before John Ashcroft came on the screen at the ALA audience I’d never actually heard an audience hiss at anything. I was quite impressed, and it didn’t have the heavy-handedness of Bowling for Columbine. I have to wonder, though, how many ties _any_ modern businessman would have to Saudi Arabia - is it really fair to cast such aspersions on the Bush family for their connections when Moore comes right out and says that the Saudis own something like 7% of this country - so “Six Degrees of Osama bin Laden” is a game one could probably play with a whole lot of people. I’m not sure how fair it is to pull that with these particular people, and of course Moore didn’t address that. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/90 "2004-06-30T06:11:19Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > I’ll put a dollar down that says something comes up on July 5th that means you can’t go. If you’re willing, I’ll take that bet. And I even live in Chicago, so we can settle up promptly. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/91 "2004-06-30T06:53:22Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I have to wonder, though, how many ties _any_ modern businessman would have to Saudi Arabia - is it really fair to cast such aspersions on the Bush family for their connections when Moore comes right out and says that the Saudis own something like 7% of this country - so “Six Degrees of Osama bin Laden” is a game one could probably play with a whole lot of people. It’s not the ties to Saudi Arabia that’s the problem, it’s the ties to Saudi Arabia coupled with the _special treatment given to the Saudis_ in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. Nobody would complain about Bush’s ties to the Saudis if they didn’t get priority queueing to leave the country on 9/13/01, or if Bush exercised his ties to the Sauds to pursue the terrorists in the Kingdom (as opposed to fooling around with Iraq). ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/92 "2004-06-30T11:09:28Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Please, for the love of God, see something that Moore has made first before making such a claim. From “Roger and Me” down, Micheal Moore is a 100% true-blue America-loving patriot. He is against certain _people_ and _companies_ who are selling his beloved nation down the drain. > **[News](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/)** > > The latest UK and World news, from Mirror Online. Find the best stories, opinion, pictures and video on the day's events. 3rd and 4th paragraph under the mid-page pic. If you want another source just search for it. Americans like him make me want to move to Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/93 "2004-06-30T12:03:24Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content\_objectid=13583626\_method=full\_siteid=50143\_headline=-THE-AWKWARD-CONSCIENCE-OF-A-NATION-name\_page.html](http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=13583626_method=full_siteid=50143_headline=-THE%2DAWKWARD%2DCONSCIENCE%2DOF%2DA%2DNATION-name_page.html) > > 3rd and 4th paragraph under the mid-page pic. If you want another source just search for it. Americans like him make me want to move to Canada. This? > [@](#): > > “We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don’t know about anything that’s happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing. National Geographic produced a survey which showed that 60 per cent of 18-25 year olds don’t know where Great Britain is on a map. And 92 per cent of us don’t own a passport.” What’s the problem? He’s got a point. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/94 "2004-06-30T12:42:28Z")
Remember **Equipoise** , one can not criticize something or want it to improve without HATING it, according to some folks. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/95 "2004-06-30T13:00:18Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content\_objectid=13583626\_method=full\_siteid=50143\_headline=-THE-AWKWARD-CONSCIENCE-OF-A-NATION-name\_page.html](http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=13583626_method=full_siteid=50143_headline=-THE%2DAWKWARD%2DCONSCIENCE%2DOF%2DA%2DNATION-name_page.html) > > 3rd and 4th paragraph under the mid-page pic. If you want another source just search for it. Americans like him make me want to move to Canada. So pointing out your country’s shortcomings means that you hate your country? I think not, **duffer**. It means you love your country and hate to see it going to the dogs. If this were the Pit I’d suggest that America’s gain may be Canada’s loss, but it isn’t, so I shan’t. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/96 "2004-06-30T13:09:43Z")
Myself, I’ve always liked Senator Schurz’ gloss on the old “my country right or wrong” thing. In a speech to the Senate in [1872](http://www.bartleby.com/66/47/15947.html), Schurz put it: “Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right.” I think that’s Moore’s take. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/97 "2004-06-30T13:53:41Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Remember **Equipoise** , one can not criticize something or want it to improve without HATING it, according to some folks. I know, sigh. Northern Piper, I love that quote. This is my current sig on another board (in small font): "I confidently trust that the American people will prove themselves … too wise not to detect the false pride or the dangerous ambitions or the selfish schemes which so often hide themselves under that deceptive cry of mock patriotism: ‘Our country, right or wrong!’ They will not fail to recognize that our dignity, our free institutions and the peace and welfare of this and coming generations of Americans will be secure only as we cling to the watchword of true patriotism: ‘Our country—when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right.’” — Carl Schurz, October 17, 1899 Carl Schurz: German immigrant, Senator, Ambassador, Secretary of the Interior, Editor, Writer, Republican ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/98 "2004-06-30T15:08:09Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > So pointing out your country’s shortcomings means that you hate your country? I think not, **duffer**. It means you love your country and hate to see it going to the dogs. You know, I’m a lefty myself, but Moore does frequently tread a mighty fine line between criticizing his country’s actions and being one of those self-loathing Americans I find really tiresome. I re-watched The Big One a couple of days ago, and Moore’s final line in the movie was “One evil empire down, one to go.” And I got the impression he was only half joking. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/99 "2004-06-30T15:37:34Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I used to be a theater manager and ticketing systems are usually set for a number slightly lower than the actual seat count. These unsold seats are called “house seats” and in addition to preventing accidental overselling, they let a manager seat last-minute VIPs or other special (read: irate) customers. They also allow for contingencies such as broken seats. > > So one or two people slipping into a show probably won’t displace others. Of course, if you slipped in an later see someone standing around looking for a seat, because there aren’t any left, you should let your conscience be your guide. Another former theater manager here, and I’d have to respectfully disagree. Yes, we had buffers on admissions, too, but that was because not all seats are agreeable to people–some are too close to the screen or too far to the left or right. Also, the fuller a theater gets, the less likely that you’ll find two or more seats together, and some people don’t want to go to a film with their SO only to have to sit six rows away from each other. I’d say that anyone who sneaks into a film is likely to take a more preferable seat, increasing the likelihood that rightful ticket-buyers will not find seats that are either comfortable or together, which means they have to compromise their experience or ask for a refund. So that still makes the “sneaker” a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324/100 "2004-06-30T16:24:30Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content\_objectid=13583626\_method=full\_siteid=50143\_headline=-THE-AWKWARD-CONSCIENCE-OF-A-NATION-name\_page.html](http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=13583626_method=full_siteid=50143_headline=-THE%2DAWKWARD%2DCONSCIENCE%2DOF%2DA%2DNATION-name_page.html) > > 3rd and 4th paragraph under the mid-page pic. If you want another source just search for it. Americans like him make me want to move to Canada. Let me get this straight: You resent sharing citizenship with people who are opposed to _ignorance?_ Uh… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yep-people-are-staying-away-from-fahrenheit-9-11-in-droves/252324.md?page=6)