# Yes, "300" is the most homoerotic action movie ever made **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 20, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735 "2007-03-20T17:04:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/21 "2007-03-20T20:44:26Z")
Don’t forget “Troy”. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/22 "2007-03-20T20:47:10Z")
[QUOTE=gigi] Don’t forget “Troy”. [/QUOTE] Donahue? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/23 "2007-03-20T20:48:08Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] This bugs me a little, too. It seems that any time a man is in some state of partial undress, for any reason, it gets called “homoerotic.” [/QUOTE] Anytime you see a woman in some state of partial undress, it’s usually called erotic, as well. Is this really that different? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/24 "2007-03-20T20:53:48Z")
I think part of it is that straight guys are used to seeing women put out there as sexual objects and consider that the norm. When it is guys that are shown that way, they have to put a label on it. I’ve noticed that many uses of the word homoerotic are couched in terms to make it sound like a put down. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/25 "2007-03-20T21:07:57Z")
_Jarhead_ is way gayer. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/26 "2007-03-20T21:15:58Z")
I think the point is that, according to some theories (makes perfect sense to me), such imagery is the only “safe” way for straight men to deal with whatever homosexual thoughts\* they might have: if you excuse the exhibition of rippling manflesh by putting it in a historical context, and if you turn the images of male-on-male penetration into subtext by metaphorizing the penis as a sword, then you’ve safely removed all such thoughts from the conscious mind to the unconscious. No, I’m not saying that all men are secretly gay. But to whatever extent one has such thoughts or idle curiosities or, yes, even sublimated desires, to that extent the imagery in \*\*300 \*\*is, indeed, homoerotic. And I think it’s true that for some men who might have such repressed thoughts that they’re afraid to deal with consciously,\*\* the adrenaline and emotional intensity of the violence is a good cover for the emotional response that might be caused by the homoerotic imagery. \*I didn’t say urges, I said _thoughts_. \*\*I said \*some \*men. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/27 "2007-03-20T21:16:59Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] _Jarhead_ is way gayer. [/QUOTE] \*Jarhead \*is pretty gay. But gayer? \*Jackass \*is gayest. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/28 "2007-03-20T21:28:01Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] I think part of it is that straight guys are used to seeing women put out there as sexual objects and consider that the norm. When it is guys that are shown that way, they have to put a label on it. I’ve noticed that many uses of the word homoerotic are couched in terms to make it sound like a put down. [/QUOTE] I don’t consider it a put down (I’m not gay though). I just think that there’s a certain humor in being SO manly that it can only appeal to another (probably gay) man. Especially if the man in question is outwardly homophobic himself. It’s kind of like a bunch of sweaty college wrestlers or Marines walking around all jacked-up with no shirts on, flexing for each other and yelling “fag” this or “homo” that. It’s like “dude…you do know that’s kind of gay, right (not that there’s anything wrong with that)?” Anyhow, I’m still going to see 300 in IMAX. Does that make me gay? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/29 "2007-03-20T21:29:09Z")
The pistol-twirling scene in _Red River_ was the gayest thing that ever happened in straight cinema. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/30 "2007-03-20T21:30:37Z")
[two guys in **The 40-Year-Old Virgin**]: You’re gay for saying that. [/two guys in **The 40-Year-Old Virgin**] ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/31 "2007-03-20T21:32:27Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] And I think it’s true that for some men who might have such repressed thoughts that they’re afraid to deal with consciously, the adrenaline and emotional intensity of the violence is a good cover for the emotional response that might be caused by the homoerotic imagery. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but like Freud said, sometimes a cigar is only a huge, throbbing penis. I mean _cigar_. Huge, throbbing cigar. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/32 "2007-03-20T21:36:33Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] The pistol-twirling scene in _Red River_ was the gayest thing that ever happened in straight cinema. [/QUOTE] That, and whenever Rock Hudson pretended to be gay in a movie to seduce a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/33 "2007-03-20T21:48:55Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] \*Jarhead \*is pretty gay. But gayer? \*Jackass \*is gayest. [/QUOTE] Fair enough. Among movies I’ve actually seen, I’d say _Jarhead_ outgays _The 300_ just because the inclusion of homoerotic elements in _Jarhead_ is so blatantly and utterly pointless, while seeing them in _300_ (or, rather seeing them in the combat scenes in _300_, as opposed to the decadence scenes involving Xerxes’ entourage) requires a willful act. Sure, spears penetrate bodies and so do penises. Big deal. Balloons are hollow and so are piggy banks, but that doesn’t mean one is symbolic of the other. The Spartans used spears and phalanxes because they proved useful at mowing down waves of attackers, not to exercise some kind of sexual symbolism. How could it be homoerotic to depict Spartans doing what Spartans did? I find _The 300_ has numerous flaws, but being “gay” isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/34 "2007-03-20T22:16:48Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] The Spartans used spears and phalanxes because they proved useful at mowing down waves of attackers, not to exercise some kind of sexual symbolism. [/QUOTE] Then it’s a good thing the Spartans didn’t make the movie. In any case, how or why it was made is utterly irrelevant: the act of writing and the act of reading are two separate acts entirely, and what one reacts to in a movie is none of the moviemakers’ business. Just because–or even if–there was no homoerotic intent, that alters not one whit the fact that the imagery therein will resonate homoerotically, at some level, for some viewers. [QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] I find _The 300_ has numerous flaws, but being “gay” isn’t one of them. [/QUOTE] You’re calling it a flaw, which surely reveals something. I call it the movie’s sole strength. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/35 "2007-03-20T22:25:42Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] You’re calling it a flaw, which surely reveals something. I call it the movie’s sole strength. [/QUOTE] Homoerotocism is only a flaw where it hurts rather than enhances a film. In this particular case, I don’t think _The 300_ is a particularly homoerotic film and the flaw is choosing to interpret it as such. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/36 "2007-03-20T22:26:58Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] How could it be homoerotic to depict Spartans doing what Spartans did? [/QUOTE] I’d just like to throw this one out there and let it speak for itself. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/37 "2007-03-20T22:32:11Z")
[QUOTE=Tracy Lord] I’d just like to throw this one out there and let it speak for itself. [/QUOTE] My wife wants to know what I’m laughing so hard at. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/38 "2007-03-20T22:47:53Z")
It’s _300_, not _The 300_. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/39 "2007-03-20T23:04:47Z")
Oh. I thought the running line was that it was [homophobic.](http://afterelton.logo-blogs.com/2007/03/06/300-reservations-confirmed/) Although that article says that Xerxes spoke with a lisp and clutched at his pearls the whole time, so I don’t know WHAT movie he was watching. For the record, Zach Snyder said he included homosexual elements in Xerxes to scare the hell out of the target audience – young, straight males. [“What’s more scary to a 20-year-old boy than a giant god-king who wants to have his way with you?””](http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index.php?qid=20070319122830AAdPhLC) But homoerotic? Ah, no. I think the Athenian line is there to dispute that. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/40 "2007-03-20T23:05:27Z")
[QUOTE=Tracy Lord] [QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] How could it be homoerotic to depict Spartans doing what Spartans did? [/QUOTE] I’d just like to throw this one out there and let it speak for itself. [/QUOTE] Um, no. Once you put the word “depict” into the mix, you acknowledge a third party’s–the filmmakers’–influence on the material. And if you guys are claiming that \*\*300 \*\*is a historically accurate depiction, well, then, let me just tell you that you are lone voices crying in the wilderness. I really don’t think historical accuracy is gonna count for any kind of defense, of anything, with this one. I have rarely seen a movie where the filmmakers have with such gay abandon painted \*“Fuck historical accuracy!” \*with such a wide brush all over a movie. Not that there’s anything wrong with that; I think the scifi/fantasy approach the filmmakers took to \*\*300 \*\*isn’t anything they would deny. It’s as fantastical a representation of “history” as \*\*Amadeus \*\*or **Domino** , both of which I enjoyed. Hell, I enjoyed the experience of watching **300** , for that matter. But the Historical Accuracy Card is \*not \*a card the defenders of this movie will find in their deck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735.md?page=3)