# Yes, "300" is the most homoerotic action movie ever made

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Created:** [March 20, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735 "2007-03-20T17:04:43Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 6

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**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/101 "2007-03-22T00:17:32Z")

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Evidently, you guys have never seen, "[The Day the Fish Came Out](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_the_Fish_Came_Out) " (1967). For some reason, two guys scamper around a Greek island, alternately, in and out of skimpy white undies while American sailors run wild like frat boys do during spring break. 😛 Complete with fag hag Candice Bergen!! :eek: My God, the title tells it all!!!

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**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/102 "2007-03-22T00:28:16Z")

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What was so homoerotic about Top Gun? I’m thinking that is has to be pretty damn hot & sweaty that it bears mention 21 years later.

And Tango & Cash? All I can remember of that movie was how bad it was. Why are you people devoting perfectly good brain cells to remembering these movies??

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**Author:** ![Aioua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@Aioua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aioua)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/103 "2007-03-22T00:42:42Z")

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Hmm. Perhaps the confusion comes from the labeling. If you call _300_ homoerotic it almost seems like it can _only_ be homoerotic. But it also holds lots of appeal for the straight ladies out there, and is quite entertaining to us straight guys who like a manly movie about manly men acting manly. I know I do. And I think we can all admit that.  
Maybe it’s just that calling an action movie homoerotic isn’t that brilliant of an insight so one might assume that homoerotic means _only_ homoerotic, to add some depth to the claim.  
Isn’t the whole point of an action movie to appeal to men? _300_ is just a really good action movie. So it’s very appealing to straight and gay men. So what are we fighting about?

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**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/104 "2007-03-22T01:06:46Z")

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[QUOTE=foolsguinea]  
In which I try to avoid taking this to the Pit by calling Miller rude names.  
[/quote]  
:dubious:

> [@](#):
>
> (obviously not to _you_, gay boy, but to the rest of us)

Completely out of line, **foolsguinea**. Using someone’s sexuality as an insult is questionable behavior even for the Pit, so it’s not even remotely appropriate for any of the other fora. Don’t do this again.

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**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/105 "2007-03-22T01:32:05Z")

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[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture]  
What was so homoerotic about Top Gun? I’m thinking that is has to be pretty damn hot & sweaty that it bears mention 21 years later.

And Tango & Cash? All I can remember of that movie was how bad it was. Why are you people devoting perfectly good brain cells to remembering these movies??  
[/QUOTE]

Way back in the day, I worked at a movie theater. So, personally, I’m not wasting _any_ perfectly good brain cells – it’s all in there as part of the scar tissue.

What was homoerotic about Top Gun was the same thing that is homoerotic about anything else – men placed together into a context that is eroticized. In that case, the “male bonding” realm of the figher pilot subculture. Even the introduction of Kelly McGillis and a few other token chicks didn’t detract overmuch from the male-bonding-without-shirts-on going on. There’s a relatively good riff on Top Gun’s homoeroticism in _Clerks_ or some other slackerish movie that I can’t recall… damn scar tissue.

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**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/106 "2007-03-22T01:39:08Z")

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[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture]  
What was so homoerotic about Top Gun? I’m thinking that is has to be pretty damn hot & sweaty that it bears mention 21 years later.

[/QUOTE]

[This is what’s so gay about _Top Gun_.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHklGtW3rwU)  
[Also this.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekXxi9IKZSA)

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**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/107 "2007-03-22T05:53:10Z")

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I just saw 300 and I’ve pretty much come to the conclusion that if 300 is gay (not that there’s anything wrong with that) then I don’t want to be straight. Basically, the gist is only Spartan women produce Spartan men, and compared to Spartan men, most normal men don’t even match up to Sparten women.  
As for Top Gun, Tom Cruise, Val Kilmer and friends playing shirtless sweatly beach volleyball is pretty gay (once again, not that there’s anything wrong with that).

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**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/108 "2007-03-22T06:29:27Z")

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[QUOTE=lissener]  
Wow. “Quota system”? Wow. I have seen some straw blown around in my day, but between you and Bryan E, this thread has been a real eye opener to me.

You do realize I hope–both of you–that the lengths of illogic to which you’re willing to stretch in order defend your defensiveness comes off as, well, a little defensive. I’m just sayin.  
[/quote]

And you’re just lyin. I can’t speak for WhyNot but there’s nothing defensive (what does that _mean_, anyway? Like “hypocritical”, it’s one of the most casually overused accusations these days) in anything I’ve said, least of all my unanswered questions of post #55 in which I ask for your specific comments on this film, since you’re claiming _my_ specific comments are illogical. My premise is that _300_ is not an especially homoerotic film. My arguments include claims that the combat in the film, while exaggerated and stylized, is not particularly erotic, let alone homoerotic. My initial foray was that _Jarhead_, which contains a “field fuck” scene, as well as Jake Gyllenhaal cavorting wearing only a Santa hat over his penis, a shower scene and some borderline misogynistic material, qualifies as a “gay” movie far more than _300_.

Got an actual argument instead of an ad hominem? By all means and with full red-carpet invitation, present it.  
Personally, I think the most homophobic mainstream movie of recent years was _De-Lovely_. If anyone asks, I’d be happy to explain my reasoning.

I won’t even accuse those who disagree of defensiveness.

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**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/109 "2007-03-22T06:54:06Z")

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[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]  
. . . there’s nothing defensive (what does that _mean_, anyway?  
[/QUOTE]

Here’s an illustration of what “defensive” means (also one of the funniest things I’ve read on the Dope for a while):

[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]  
. . . _300_ is not an especially homoerotic film.  
[/QUOTE]  
So it’s suddenly clear: you simply don’t understand the term. At least, your personal definition is greatly at odds with the standard definition.

[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]  
Personally, I think the most homophobic mainstream movie of recent years was _De-Lovely_.  
[/QUOTE]  
Um, “homoerotic” does not equal “homophobic.” Maybe that’s part of the definition problem you’re having.

[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]  
I won’t even accuse those who disagree of defensiveness.  
[/QUOTE]  
Cool, kinda like me. I’m only accusing defensive people of being defensive; disagreement has nothing to do with it.

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**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/110 "2007-03-22T08:19:49Z")

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[QUOTE=lissener]  
also one of the funniest things I’ve read on the Dope for a while  
[/quote]  
Calmly, I’ll just say that’s anther lie. I don’t believe you actually find it humourous, but rather find that _saying_ it is serves as another lame ad hominem attack sparing you the burden of supplying actual evidence. You quote a single declarative statement of mine and call it “defensive”? That’s not an explanation, it’s a cop-out.

> [@](#):
>
> So it’s suddenly clear: you simply don’t understand the term. At least, your personal definition is greatly at odds with the standard definition.

Feel free to explain what your definition is, or what you feel the standard definition is and, if you please for I am asking for the third time, provide examples from _300_ that meet this definition

> [@](#):
>
> Um, “homoerotic” does not equal “homophobic.”

Um, there’s a large gap between that paragraph and the one above, which I thought was a sufficient indicator that it represented a different subject. Since homophobia has also come up for discussion in this thread, my comment was relevant to _that_ topic and not whatever definition problem you’re having. Next time I’ll insert ten carriage returns instead of just three. I don’t believe that you believe I’ve actually confused the terms “homoerotic” and “homophobic”. This is the same empty ad hominem I described above.

> [@](#):
>
> Cool, kinda like me. I’m only accusing defensive people of being defensive; disagreement has nothing to do with it.

Then can you supply an example of me being defensive? A _real_ example?

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**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/111 "2007-03-22T08:33:16Z")

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Dude, to the extent that “homoerotic” means _anything_, \*\*300 \*\*is homoerotic. Do some research. It’s just simply patently ridiculous to say that this movie, among the most homoerotic movies ever made, in 100 years of movies being made, is not homoerotic. It betrays either a total misunderstanding of all the concepts under discussion, or a dishonesty that I can only imagine is defensive. You choose.

It’s obvious that you’ve made no attempt to discover the established, standard definition of the word “homoerotic”; that you’ve simply assigned it a meaning based on your own subjective experience. (Do you think it means that anyone watching it is gay? or that, on a literal level, all the characters are gay? or what?)

So please, just so we know what we’re talking about, what do you understand the word to mean? I’m fascinated to hear a definition that could possibly exclude **300**.

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**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/112 "2007-03-22T09:13:24Z")

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[QUOTE=lissener]  
Dude, to the extent that “homoerotic” means _anything_, \*\*300 \*\*is homoerotic. Do some research. It’s just simply patently ridiculous to say that this movie, among the most homoerotic movies ever made, in 100 years of movies being made, is not homoerotic. It betrays either a total misunderstanding of all the concepts under discussion, or a dishonesty that I can only imagine is defensive. You choose.  
[/quote]

I’m sorry, if it’s _that_ obvious, then supplying a specific example should be, I assume, easy. Sure, there are a lot of well-built guys wearing scanty clothing. Is that particularly homoerotic? Would a documentary about Olympic swimmers be equally homoerotic? Does “homoerotic” refer to _anything_ a homosexual (male in this case) finds or might find arousing? Is _Pumping Iron_ homoerotic? If all a film needs to be homoerotic is a guy walking around with his shirt off, showing a good set of abs, than the category of homoerotic films becomes a pretty large and unwieldy one.

> [@](#):
>
> It’s obvious that you’ve made no attempt to discover the established, standard definition of the word “homoerotic”; that you’ve simply assigned it a meaning based on your own subjective experience. (Do you think it means that anyone watching it is gay? or that, on a literal level, all the characters are gay? or what?)

Well, I just looked it up in a few online dictionaries and it doesn’t appear to be a particularly expansive word. Merriam-Webster describes it only as “marked by, revealing, or portraying homosexual desire”, while [Barteby.com](http://Barteby.com) says the similar “1. Of or concerning homosexual love and desire. 2. Tending to arouse such desire.” Homosexual _love_ doesn’t appear in the film among the Spartans, though homosexual _lust_ is staged in Xerxes’ harem (though this is a ploy to recruit Ephialtes, which I guess makes it about as homoerotic as lesbian porn videos marketed to heterosexual men). Does the kneeling demanded by Xerxes indicate homosexuality? If it does, does that mean historical Japan and China were homosexuality-driven nations? Kneeling before higher-ranked members of the aristocracy was common before western influences discouraged the practice. Does using a spear or sword indicate homoeroticism? This might have come as a surprise to the millions of historical warriors who used these weapons right up until the advent of gunpowder. Kneeling and spears _become_ homoerotic in the eyes of modern audiences who are ignorant of how (and how frequently) these concepts were applied in antiquity.

My earlier question about scantily-clad spear-wielding African warriors in cheesy jungle pictures remains - if _300_ is so obviously, blatantly, inescapably homoerotic, are those films even a _little_ homoerotic? If not, why not?

If there exists a homosexual who was aroused by this film… sure, I guess for _him_ it qualifies as homoerotic. I’m sure there were plenty who were aroused. I’m sure there are plenty who were aroused by _Fight Club_, too. Is _Fight Club_ a homoerotic film? Years from now when _300_ has been surpassed by even splashier CGI epics and its Blu-Rays are sought by hardcore fans, maybe most of _them_ will be homosexuals because this particular film appeals to them. If in 2010, you can cite an article that shows _300_’s has equal or greater lasting appeal with homosexuals than heterosexuals, like _Jason and the Argonauts_ and _Top Gun_, as referenced by others in this thread, I’ll cheerfully admit that _300_ can be said to be widely _viewed_ as a homoerotic film because there are lots of people who happen to hold that view, rather like diamonds being valuable because enough people _say_ they are.

For the moment, though, I’ll wait until the jokey immature “Musclemen = TEH GAY! Kneeling = TEH GAY!” meme dies down.

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**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/113 "2007-03-22T11:55:54Z")

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Well, I think that purposely making men fight in close quarters in much _less_ clothing than they used in real life qualifies it, but since **lissener** also thinks so, I will refrain from agreeing further with the premise of the thread.

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**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/114 "2007-03-22T12:23:03Z")

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[QUOTE=Equipoise]  
No kidding! This thread is hilarious. I’m assuming at the very least, that the writer of the OP is gay.

Anyway, as a red-blooded female, I’m with **Snickers**. If Jake G prancing around with a Santa hat on his dingdong and Gerard Butler being all…oooh, Gerard Butler, is gay, then give me MORE please!  
[/QUOTE]

Indeed. If Leonidas is “gay,” then maybe I should start looking at the other team’s brochures.

I mean…shacking up with queen Gorgo on a regular basis _and_ being able to kill tens of thousands of Persians with sticks and bronze swords? I’ll sign up for _that_ brand o’ gay on the spot! 😃

Anyway…now that I’m thinking about it, should we consider the oft-used “dance around a table singing motown into a hairbrush” scene you see in all the “chick flicks” these days as “homoerotic”? I mean, it’s so…_girly._

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**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/115 "2007-03-22T12:35:53Z")

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[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]  
Excellent! Let’s do it metric-style. _Brokeback Mountain_ is set at an arbitrary baseline of 100 gladiators. Proceed from there.  
[/QUOTE]

Okay, now we need something for 0 gladiators. I would suggest the film version of Stephen Hawking’s “A Brief History of Time” because it is devoid of any flavour of eroticisim.

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**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/116 "2007-03-22T13:00:25Z")

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[QUOTE=lissener]  
So please, just so we know what we’re talking about, what do you understand the word to mean? I’m fascinated to hear a definition that could possibly exclude **300**.  
[/QUOTE]

Whatever it’s meaning is, some people seem to love to toss it into certain things straight males enjoy, which can lead it to be read as a puerile way of needling the breeders.

If you think that’s a misinterpretation of it’s usage, all I’m saying is that that’s how it comes across to me.

Jesus, I’ve been in high school showers surrounded by 20 male cocks, and young shiny, male bodies (let’s clarify NOW: this was when I was in High School), and as far as I was concerned, there was nothing homo-erotic about it. It was called showering after soccer practice. And, yeah, we’d notice and even make fun of other guy’s dongs. (a memorable line, “my god, Jason, you could fuck around a corner with that thing.”)

Call it gay. I don’t care. I never once had a fantasy involving a single one of those dongs.

When I hear someone say “that movie was homoerotic”, it means nothing more to me than “it turns on gay guys who are too closeted to rent porn”. But, it certainly seems to be used to disparage stuff that straight males enjoy.

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**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/117 "2007-03-22T14:30:58Z")

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[QUOTE=Balduran]  
Okay, now we need something for 0 gladiators. I would suggest the film version of Stephen Hawking’s “A Brief History of Time” because it is devoid of any flavour of eroticisim.  
[/QUOTE]

Great! Now we’ve got a scale!

0 gladiators = no homoerotic content; example: _A Brief History of Time._

100 gladiators = chock full of homoerotic content; example: _Brokeback Mountain._

100+ gladiators = gay porn.

So, how many gladiators does _The 300_ rate? How many for _Top Gun?_

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**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/118 "2007-03-22T14:49:37Z")

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I have a question…

if 300 is homoerotic, does that mean I’m not allowed to enjoy the view? Do I need to take a sex change before I can watch it?

I haven’t even seen the trailers, but was thinking of checking out the French movie theaters to see if it’s on yet… the posters sure look, ah, nice.

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**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/119 "2007-03-22T14:53:18Z")

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[QUOTE=Balduran]  
Okay, now we need something for 0 gladiators. I would suggest the film version of Stephen Hawking’s “A Brief History of Time” because it is devoid of any flavour of eroticisim.  
[/QUOTE]  
Are you kidding? A man with a brain like that is HOT!

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-300-is-the-most-homoerotic-action-movie-ever-made/396735/120 "2007-03-22T14:55:30Z")

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[QUOTE=Nava]  
I have a question…

if 300 is homoerotic, does that mean I’m not allowed to enjoy the view? Do I need to take a sex change before I can watch it?  
[/QUOTE]  
Wait, are you a straight woman thinking you need to change to a man, or a straight man thinking you need to change into a woman to be able to enjoy it? (Sorry, I’ve never known your gender or if I did, I shamefully forgot what it was)

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