# Yes boss, I have to show up for jury duty **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 10, 2005, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323 "2005-02-10T01:52:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/41 "2005-02-10T23:44:54Z")
> [@](#): > > This is a totally legal response in my county. If your jury duty summons has a questionaire regarding excusal with support from an employer letter, then your county recognizes excusals like ours does. Unfortunately, Montgomery Country, Texas does not allow such an exemption. Not only is a very narrow set of exemptions carefully spelled out, but the top of the summons states in red letters “Business reasons is not an excuse”. Likewise, for those who mentioned just ignoring it, I’ve checked around a bit on my own and around here the court will happily send a constable to collect you if you don’t show up (and presumably kick your ass all the way to the court house). Anyway, no worries. This is the first time I’ve been called and I think it will be at least somewhat interesting. Also, Mr. Boss Man, I think, has realized he went a bit overboard and has mentioned nothing further about this. Thanks to everyone for the supportive comments. Plus, thanx for the new additions to my vocabulary. “Brass-plated mallethead”: I’m definitely gonna be using that one sometime. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/42 "2005-02-11T00:32:36Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > “in Australia, you can just tell them to piss off, and that’s that”. Your boss obviously hasn’t ever had to try to get excused from jury service in Australia. I don’t know about other states, but here in NSW it’s quite difficult. I wasn’t excused even when I was moving to New Zealand in the week after the trial and had a thousand other things to do. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/43 "2005-02-11T00:43:56Z")
I wish I’d get jury duty. Really. Just once would be OK. I’ve been licensed to drive everywhere I’ve lived since 1975. Registered to vote everywhere I’ve lived since 1987. Phone number since 1982. I’ve never been summoned. My ex got summoned three times, in three different states, within two years. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/44 "2005-02-11T01:16:01Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > The way I heard it, the jury pool is determined by people who send in the summons, and if you don’t send it in, they won’t even know you exist. Can’t vouch for the accuracy except to say that I’ve thrown away every single summons I’ve received, and they haven’t arrested me yet. > > Of course, this is Los Angeles County, where the clerks are a wee bit more overworked than some podunk mid-Atlantic town. 😃 > > I should actually serve one of these days, though. I’m at the point financially where five bucks a day will actually make a difference. Hey, maybe I’ll get a nice juicy murder trial or something… [I hope your luck doesn’t run out.](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/los_angeles_metro/la-me-onthelaw28jan28,1,1416880.story?coll=la-commun-los_angeles_metro&ctrack=1&cset=true) ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/45 "2005-02-11T06:41:37Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > [I hope your luck doesn’t run out.](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/los_angeles_metro/la-me-onthelaw28jan28,1,1416880.story?coll=la-commun-los_angeles_metro&ctrack=1&cset=true) From your link: > [@](#): > > The rules give recipients a year to respond to the original jury summons. If they don’t, a sanction summons is mailed, setting a new date for jury duty, with 30 days to respond before a failure to appear notice is sent. I never got a sanction summons or failure to appear notice, just the original summons which is the same every year. Come to think…I haven’t even gotten THAT much in several years. Nada. Probably because I haven’t voted since '96… ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/46 "2005-02-11T13:35:50Z")
You know how I get out of jury duty? It’s really quite simple. I tick off the ‘not a citizen’ box and send it back. It hasn’t stopped them from summoning me in both counties I’ve lived in. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/47 "2005-02-11T13:54:41Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > Actually, an employer CAN get the employee dismissed from jury duty (in most counties). I have been using this format on my company’s letterhead: > > This letter works for every one of my employees for every jury duty summons that I have been notified of in a timely fashion for the last 10+ years. If an employee wants to go, I have no problem with that, but they realize that they will have to use one of their PTO days to be off. This is a totally legal response in my county. If your jury duty summons has a questionaire regarding excusal with support from an employer letter, then your county recognizes excusals like ours does. > > As for **subpeonas** …well, the employee is on their own. I do let them off for the subpeona, but the PTO rules still apply in this case too. > > As for your boss, he’s an idiot. If he had half a brain, he would be writing letters to the jury commission to get you off of jury duty…if they allow it. You should know if they do by looking at the summons. So your company penalizes empoyees for performing a “civic duty” that is legally required of them? That does not show any of the "good patriotic " fervor or “civic pride” or any of the other stuff most companies at least any lip service to. There are judges out there who would react very negatively to that kind of letter. I’ve seen it happen if Federal court. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/48 "2005-02-11T13:56:35Z")
> [@GingerOfTheNorth](#): > > You know how I get out of jury duty? It’s really quite simple. I tick off the ‘not a citizen’ box and send it back. It hasn’t stopped them from summoning me in both counties I’ve lived in. 1. Well, I AM a citizen and I happen to think the jury system is a relatively fair one, so if I were to do that it would be wrong. And bad. 2. If the local management is so hard done by over one of their employees being called for something every other citizen has to do at one time or another, let them plead their case before the court. I’ll be fucked, however, if I’m going to risk a contempt citation on their behalf. Come to think of it, if I’m so bloody valuable that the entire company will collapse because I spend a day or two on jury duty, maybe a significant pay rise is in order. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/49 "2005-02-11T14:04:03Z")
That came across pretty harsh, sorry. Still, this jury duty is a requirement and some judges do not take kindly to being told “I can’t do jury duty because of work being backed up” - it never worked for me. We were preparing for a Shuttle launch, I was the only gubmint software engineer in the plant, and all the shit was hitting the fan at one time. The judge was not swayed. On the plus side, the case was even better than watching Cops - we had a real stupid defendant. He was so busted, he could have arrested himself 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/50 "2005-02-11T14:06:25Z")
I find discussions of methods for getting out of jury duty rediculous and infuriating. I’ve been summoned for jury duty 8 times in 13 years, and I NEVER, not ONCE, have tried to get out of it. Yes, I have a job. Yes, I work 40+ hours per week. Yes, my company needs me there. For those of you who want to get out of it: do your fucking civic duty, people. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/51 "2005-02-11T15:35:35Z")
I only tried giving an excuse one time (I thought it was legit, what with launch schedules that cost millions even when everything goes perfectly). Every year I get called. Once I was on a trial. But, for some reason, attorneys usually aren’t too crazy about having engineers sit on a case. Maybe it’s because we tend to ignore rhetoric and stick to concrete information. Maybe it is because we tend to be skeptical about unfounded “what ifs”. It unnerves them maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/52 "2005-02-11T19:11:35Z")
**SteveG1** and **Turek** , I would love to be on a jury duty…but there would be 48% chance of delaying my employee’s payday (not a good idea to do in the state of California) if I were to serve a 5 day jury duty. As the only fiscal employee/owner here, that’s not favorable odds. A judge may not care even if it was 100% delay, but I see my employees virtually every day and I see the judge every other decade. If my request for an excuse was not granted (yet to happen, BTW), then I would come and serve and not blow it off. As long as I followed THEIR rules, I have no problem asking for an excuse and would doubt that the judge would take issue with me. Also, on our questionnaire, we are asked specifically if we care for dependents who cannot take care of themselves. This includes the disabled who we serve. Jury duty has never been a higher priority over someone else’s care and well being and the courts recognize that, otherwise they wouldn’t have that in the questionnaire in the first place. Also, don’t forget that I must maintain staffing ratios to care for these clients. As for “penalizing” someone who decides to perform a civic duty by paying their PTO, I don’t see it that way. My rules state that an employee must use any accrued PTO for any absence (under their control or not) with the only one exception required by law (Pregnancy Disability Leave). If an employee chooses to go on Jury Duty, I will not stop them…but they go in knowing what the legal rules are that I have set in place. If I was making hand over fist money, I would consider the option of paying the first day of jury duty for each employee that chooses to do so, but other considerations like paying more on employee health insurance is more important to my employees among other things. Actually, when I retire someday, I will look forward to getting out of the house and apply my knowledge and wisdom to court cases. But right now, too many people depend on me and the jury commission ACKNOWLEDGES that. Again, I am following their rules when I write these letters and went through appropriate channels when there is a need for clarification with the court system. Do not dismiss my attitude as “shirking a civic responsibility”. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/53 "2005-02-11T21:05:57Z")
For the OP, I’d point out that the boss is an ex-pat _non-citizen_. It would be entirely appropriate if he were put on the next plane to Oz - at his own expense, of course. And a hearty **fuck you** to **Yeticus Rex**. How would you like it if you were up before the judge and the judge said, “Unfortunately no-one has made themselves available for jury duty, so you’re just going to have to stay in jail until enough people do.”? I’ve been a business owner, and it’s a business risk. If it’s not in your business plan then you’re an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/54 "2005-02-11T21:35:51Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > And a hearty **fuck you** to **Yeticus Rex**. How would you like it if you were up before the judge and the judge said, “Unfortunately no-one has made themselves available for jury duty, so you’re just going to have to stay in jail until enough people do.”? > > _ **I’ve been a business owner** _, and it’s a business risk. If it’s not in your business plan then you’re an idiot. You said all I needed to know. Also, spend more time reading my posts before you wretch on yourself for some misguided reason. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/55 "2005-02-11T22:06:04Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > **SteveG1** and **Turek** , I would love to be on a jury duty… I guess you and I are just going to have to disagree. I think there is a litmus test to determine if a reason for not serving on a jury is legitimate, and I’ve never felt “I can’t do it for work reasons” passes that test. And while your letter doesn’t violate the letter of the law, it does, in my mind, violate the spirit. Virtually everyone who works could make the argument that they can’t do it for work reasons with varying degrees of truthfulness, but that would lead the courts, and therefore a huge portion of our democracy, into bedlam. I’m a firm believer that good way to test if your actions are “correct” is to ask yourself what would happen if everyone did what you are doing and then look at the consequences. But again, **Yeticus Rex** , you think your circumstances are special case and I don’t. We’ll just have to do the dreaded “agree to disagree” thing here and go on. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/56 "2005-02-11T22:11:09Z")
There is just one litmus test that counts - does the judge accept the reason, or does he reject it. Again, Yeticus, I did tone down my initial response. Still, any judge may or may not consider your reasons to be sufficient. It’s a toss of the dice. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/57 "2005-02-11T22:48:37Z")
> [@GingerOfTheNorth](#): > > You know how I get out of jury duty? It’s really quite simple. I tick off the ‘not a citizen’ box and send it back. It hasn’t stopped them from summoning me in both counties I’ve lived in. Oops. I guess it might help that you know I’m really not a citizen. I wouldn’t try to weasel my way out if I were. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/58 "2005-02-12T00:01:27Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > I guess you and I are just going to have to disagree. I think there is a litmus test to determine if a reason for not serving on a jury is legitimate, and I’ve never felt “I can’t do it for work reasons” passes that test. And while your letter doesn’t violate the letter of the law, it does, in my mind, violate the spirit. Virtually everyone who works could make the argument that they can’t do it for work reasons with varying degrees of truthfulness, but that would lead the courts, and therefore a huge portion of our democracy, into bedlam. I’m a firm believer that good way to test if your actions are “correct” is to ask yourself what would happen if everyone did what you are doing and then look at the consequences. > > But again, **Yeticus Rex** , you think your circumstances are special case and I don’t. We’ll just have to do the dreaded “agree to disagree” thing here and go on. Considering that the courts have, without exception, _agreed_ that **Yeticus** ’s business concerns trump the necessity of him or his employees serving on a jury, I don’t see how your opinion on the matter means shit. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/59 "2005-02-12T00:10:50Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > [Jury Duty FAQs in San Bernardino County](http://www.sbcounty.gov/courts/?hp=http://www.co.san-bernardino.ca.us/courts/jury/juryFaq.asp) > #4 pertains to my clients and staff. > [@From cite](#): > > Q: How do I request to be excused from jury service? > > A: Prospective jurors otherwise eligible to serve may be excused from jury service only for EXTREME hardship. All requests to be excused must be submitted to the Jury Commissioner IN WRITING prior to the prospective juror’s service date as explained on the Juror Affidavit Questionnaire attached to the Summons. **A prospective juror MAY be excused if he/she: Has a physical or mental disability that would prevent him/her from serving. The prospective juror must provide a doctor’s note verifying the disability. Must provide actual and necessary care for another and alternate arrangements are not feasible**. Will suffer an EXTREME financial burden if required to serve. My bolding. Nine of my employees are developmentally disabled…therefore, they are permanently excused. My other 50+ employees supervise and care for my other 150+ developmentally disabled adults who cannot care for themselves, M-F, 6-8 hours a day. Even I have covered for other employees when we are short-staffed. My wife (program director) has served on jury duty before since she has 4 supervisors that can hold things down while she’s gone. I, on the other hand, have NO staff that can duplicate my duties that are required on a day by day basis. I’ve only been off 3 days in the last 2 years, but that didn’t mean that I was off from taking phone calls to handle things back at the office. I do want to get an assistant someday, but there is nobody in the company as of yet that I am willing to promote with any level of confidence. If I do promote someone in the future, then it may be a consideration. I know I’m not invincible and I will become too sick or incapacitated to work and that is a major concern of mine, hence I’m still looking for a trustworthy, smart and skilled person to sub for me. As for the litmus test, I already passed it about 15-20 times…the jury commission has excused me from every jury summons that I responded to and also for my employees who are direct care givers to the developmentally disabled. I don’t have to make half-truths up to strengthen my position…it is what it is. Has anyone been reading my posts? As for violating the spirit of civic duty…currently, I am guilty as charged. It does bother me that I can’t go when called and I will rectify that when/if I can get a decent assistant to cover for me. But as for now, you just cannot abandon people who depend on you for care. Money issues come as a distant second…it was never about the money, it’s all about staffing and providing care to those who depend on us. A different kind of spirit, if you will. OK, I think I’ve beaten this thread to death. Sincerely, have a great weekend all. ---
**Author:** ![sperfur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9adbd/32.png) [@sperfur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sperfur)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323/60 "2005-02-12T00:34:46Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Especially if turns out Hitler isn’t dead after all but instead hiding out in your area and you end up sitting on the jury for his trial after he’s arrested shoplifting cake mix and birthday candles at a nearby grocery store. Here he thought he’d be eating cake on his birthday and instead he’s on trial for shoplifting and/or crimes against humanity! > > Hitler is so stupid. I’d forgotten how much I missed you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-boss-i-have-to-show-up-for-jury-duty/289323.md?page=4)