# Yes, GRIND does looks like the next CITIZEN KANE **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2003, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856 "2003-08-13T07:32:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/41 "2003-08-14T21:48:01Z")
FWIW, the reviews are coming in for _Uptown Girls_ and, well, don’t look for a sequel. If Yakin did this for the money (which I don’t have a problem with as long as he admits to it) then his next movie better kick serious ass. ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/42 "2003-08-14T23:05:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*Why don’t you go throw the 10 bucks in a burning garbage can? > > That would be a better way to spend it. \*\* It wouldn’t be the first time my dime went up in smoke. (Deletes self-indulgent screenplay-in-progress and begins work on the Cheech and Chong comeback vehicle.) ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/43 "2003-08-14T23:56:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Indygrrl \* > \*\*Uptown Girls looks fucking stupid. That’s what everyone’s saying. And isn’t the “preview” supposed to clue you in as to whether or not you want to see the movie? If you don’t use the preview to decide if it’s worth watching, then what do you use? \*\* I agree that the preview makes it look fucking stupid. This is not the first time a studio’s marketing department has tried to tailor a film’s previews to try to appeal to the biggest possible audience, instead of just showing an honest representation of what the movie is like, thus getting a smaller audience, but a lower percentage of disappointed moviegoers. Film marketers don’t care about ANYTHING but the opening weekend, and the entire marketing process is designed to get as many people as possible into the theatres those first two days. The most common strategy used by a big-studio marketing machine is to go for the lowest common denominator, and to make DAMN sure the preview doesn’t show a film’s ambiguity or complexity; just the quick, cute bits that they think they can (cynically, dishonestly) sell to the largest possible audience. > [@](#): > > Christ. You’re supposed to judge a movie by the preview, you choad! That’s what previews are for! In fact, trailers are supposed to make the movie look better than it really is. The fact that, despite having 90+ minutes of film to use in putting a trailer together, they still can’t make the movie look even mildly interesting speaks volumes about the quality of the film. Um, what planet do you watch movies on? Previews from big studios RARELY reflect exactly what a film is really like. They’re not made by the director, but by the marketing people, and they’re not ABOUT the movie, they’re ABOUT the desired audience. > [@](#): > > Wait, Remembering the Titans is “astonishingly original?” Did you watch the same feel-good football movie that I did? Apparently not. Here, for example, is Ebert, who also disagrees with you: “_Remember the Titans_ is a parable about racial harmony, yoked to the formula of a sports movie.” Here are a few more blurbs, from Rottentomatoes: "The film is a lot about character and a little about football. Not a single boring, slow, or unnecessary second. " “It’s slick Hollywood product, all right, but it also may be the most moving and entertaining movie so far this year.” –and–here’s my point: “In the hands of a lesser director, this film could have fallen to pieces under all of the clichés.” Don’t get me wrong; Remember the Titans is not Yakin’s best film; but it was his first big studio film–a thin script given to a hired director. And he made a much better film than most other directors would have made. So I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt until I can see what he’ll do with the obviously cliche material that was dumped in his lap on “Uptown Girls.” ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/44 "2003-08-15T00:00:40Z")
None of those quotes support the film being called “astonishingly original” ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/45 "2003-08-15T00:02:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by lissener \* > \*\* > Apparently not. Here, for example, is Ebert, who also disagrees with you: “Remember the Titans is a parable about racial harmony, yoked to the formula of a sports movie.”_\* Well, Ebert’s entitled to his opinion and so are you, but I think generic sports movie + generic racial harmony movie != great, original movie. I’m not saying that I wasn’t entertained by it, but I found it to be entertaining in the exact same way as most of the other formulatic Hollywood fare. FTR, I haven’t see any of the director’s other movies. ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/46 "2003-08-15T06:56:09Z")
As a skateboard enthusiast myself, I am none too happy about Grind. It looks like a movie made by all the 14-year-olds who fancy themselves as the next Bam or Tony Hawk. It’s gonna suck raw ass, and further brand people who skate as stupid. Well, if I cared about the general skater population at least. I’d be happy if they all burned in a Julia Roberts hell. ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/47 "2003-08-15T07:00:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > \*\*So . . . you’ve seen it then? Or you’re saying that it’s IMPOSSIBLE to make a good movie in which somebody learns something about themselves? \*\* “Hey, Marsha?” “Yeah?” “Do I have a mole on the back of my neck?” “Yeah.” “Huh.” [credits roll] ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/48 "2003-08-15T14:51:22Z")
Well, his first two features, which he wrote and directed, were astonishingly original and well made. “Fresh” was the story of a 12yearold kid in the ghetto, dad played by Samuel Jackson as a homeless chess genius. The kid gets sucked into being a drug runner, and the only way out is to somehow outsmart the whole drug machine he works for. [Ebert](http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/1994/08/938085.html) gave it four stars: “You may think, having seen an urban thriller or two, that you can guess how “Fresh” feels and sounds. You would be wrong. The soundtrack is not filled with loud, angry music. The plot is not manic, but focused and perceptive. Fresh, the central character, is played in an extraordinary performance by Sean Nelson, as a boy who sees and understands much, and keeps his own counsel.” His second feature, “A Price Above Rubies,” is–wait for it–astonishingly original and well made. [Ebert](http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/1998/04/040306.html) gave it three stars: “Zellweger plays Sonia, the daughter of gemologists who steer her away from the family business and into an arranged marriage with a young scholar named Mendel (Glenn Fitzgerald), who prefers prayer and study to the company of his wife. (During sex, he turns off the light and thinks of Abraham and Isaac.) Sonia’s unhappiness makes her an emotional time bomb, and it is Mendel’s older brother Sender (Christopher Eccleston) who sets her off. First, he tests her knowledge of jewelry. Then, he offers her a job in his business. Then, he has sex with her. It’s rape, but she seems to accept it as the price of freedom.” This newspaper’s [Jonathon Rosenbaum](http://onfilm.chicagoreader.com/movies/capsules/16309_PRICE_ABOVE_RUBIES) had this to say: “. . . Boaz Yakin’s 1997 second feature (after Fresh), about the painful break of a young wife and mother (Renee Zellweger) from her husband and Hasidic community in Brooklyn’s Borough Park, is for me a potent and very moving polemic about the oppressive misogyny often found in Orthodox Jewish life, predicated on a kind of patriarchal mind-set that seems surprisingly close to attitudes found throughout the Middle East. . . . a powerful and persuasively acted piece of dramatic agitprop about a neglected subject, provocative and spellbinding.” His third feature, “Remember the Titans,” was the first not written by him: he’d proved himself to the big studios and they hired him for a big project. I will say again, comparing the initial material with what Yakin was able to pull out of it, that “Titans” was _astonishingly_ orginal and well made: any other director would have, NOT very astonshingly, made it no more than the script deserved: a jumble of hacked cliches. Now, granted, at least judging by the previews, “Upton Girls” looks like the worst piece of crap a director could have been handed, but based on Yakin’s track record of spinning straw into gold, I’m gonna give it the benefit of the doubt until I see it. ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/49 "2003-08-15T15:37:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > **I will say again, comparing the initial material with what Yakin was able to pull out of it, that “Titans” was _astonishingly_ orginal and well made: any other director would have, NOT very astonshingly, made it no more than the script deserved: a jumble of hacked cliches.** Doing a fair job with a shitty script does not mean the movie was astonishingly original. Because it wasn’t. Christ, the movie was “Hoosiers” with a dash of race relations. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/50 "2003-08-15T15:47:57Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong, but “Grind” is rated PG-13, isn’t it? If that’s the case, there’s not even the hope of decent nudity to salvage this film. **lissener** , stop and think a minute. If everybody is saying “The trailers for these movies look stupid,” and you say " … the preview makes it look fucking stupid," why are you arguing? Nobody’s saying the director kills puppies for fun, or that you’re wrong for thinking he’s the greatest director in the history of the world. They’re saying the trailer looks stupid, along with trailers for a lot of other movies. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/51 "2003-08-15T16:05:07Z")
If I understand lisserner correctly, his problem is people are judging the _film_ based solely on the previews. He says he’s willing to give the movie a whirl based on the track record of the director. I say screw that noise, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck… ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/52 "2003-08-15T16:41:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalhoun \* > \*\*Does anyone have a link? I have no idea what you’re talking about. \*\* [Happy to oblige.](http://www2.warnerbros.com/grind/?fromtout=homepage_a) ---
**Author:** ![InkBlot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5e925/32.png) [@InkBlot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InkBlot)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/53 "2003-08-15T18:29:43Z")
Does anyone else look at Uptown Girls and think of Ally Sheedy? inkblot ---
**Author:** ![Lenny\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9dc877/32.png) [@Lenny\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lenny_Carl)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/54 "2003-08-15T19:53:15Z")
Getting back to the OP… You know, it’s funny, I saw the commercial and though the very same thing - so when I saw this thread, you have no idea how happy I am that someone else feels the same way. I can’t stand that line “Release those twins” and I can’t stand that guy who says that line. He just seems like a total asshole. Totally arrogant and totally clueless - a very dangerous combination. We all know that kind of guy - totally tactless. Completely classless and rude. I really hope that guy is just acting that way and that he is just really good at playing such an obnoxious character. I’m curious to see what else he’s acted in. Funny how so many people are getting the same reaction from literally 3 seconds of a preview. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/55 "2003-08-15T21:52:21Z")
So, let’s see, Ebert gave _A Price Above Rubies_ three stars. Okay. He also gave _Gigli_ 2½ stars. To go slightly off topic, Leonard Maltin gave _Laserblast_ 2½ stars. Why do we even have critics? If their job is to make Hollywood make better films, it ain’t working. If their job is to stop more people from seeing sucky movies, it ain’t working. If their job is to encourage people to see really great, but underrated, films, that ain’t working either. Yeah, I mentioned earlier that critics are ripping _Uptown Girls_ to shreds, but it was to prove a point. They liked Boaz’ earlier works, but not this one. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/56 "2003-08-15T22:40:48Z")
The purpose of critics is to give people some idea whether they should go and see a particular movie. If Roger Ebert says he likes or dislikes a movie, I may or may not agree. But I can read his review and–given what I know of his tastes–form an opinion on whether the movie will be worth seeing. The critic should be working for the movie-going public, not the studios. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/57 "2003-08-15T22:58:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by red\_dragon60 \* > \*\*As a skateboard enthusiast myself, I am none too happy about Grind. It looks like a movie made by all the 14-year-olds who fancy themselves as the next Bam or Tony Hawk. Or who fancy themselves the current Tony Hawk: [Gaylord Films production head Casey La Scala will helm the skateboarding comedy “The Grind” for the company’s specialty films division Pandora, producer Billy Gerber and 900 Films, the company founded by skateboarding champ Tony Hawk, Matt Goodman and Morgan Stone](http://www.thezreview.co.uk/comingsoon/g/grindthe.shtm) World Eater > [@](#): > > Don’t forget to vote with your wallets folks. Is there a way one can short sell a movie? 'Cause I’ve already baught 0 tickets. Is there a way I can buy fewer? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/58 "2003-08-16T00:27:29Z")
Um, sauron, perhaps some of the posts were saying " . . . ‘The trailers for these movies look stupid,’ " but then those were the posters I agree with, and there I was NOT–wait for it–arguing with them. I was arguing with idiotic posts such as the following: “You’re supposed to judge a movie by the preview, you choad! That’s what previews are for!” ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/59 "2003-08-16T00:31:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Blue Sky \* > \*\*So, let’s see, Ebert gave _A Price Above Rubies_ three stars. Okay. He also gave _Gigli_ 2½ stars. . . . \*\* . . . and there’s already a backlash begun against the kneejerk trashing of _Gigli_; I’ve seen at least two articles pondering why there’s such a critical bandwagon to jump on when the movie’s not actually that bad. Now, of course, that there’s a controversy, I’m actually curious to see _Gigli_. It doesn’t look very good, but the critical party line is not always valuable: _Ishtar_ and _Showgirls_ are in my permanent collection. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856/60 "2003-08-16T00:38:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > \*\* > World Eater > > Is there a way one can short sell a movie? 'Cause I’ve already baught 0 tickets. Is there a way I can buy fewer? \*\* Nope, that’ll do just fine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-grind-does-looks-like-the-next-citizen-kane/194856.md?page=4)