# Yes I am way late, but I just read Ender's Game and I have a question. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 30, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180 "2003-04-30T16:34:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![prisoner6655321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f8ce5/32.png) [@prisoner6655321](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/prisoner6655321)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/21 "2003-05-01T00:31:00Z")
OOO!! Orson just released his Ender’s Game short story on the web. [http://www.hatrack.com/osc/stories/enders-game.shtml](http://www.hatrack.com/osc/stories/enders-game.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/22 "2003-05-01T01:10:47Z")
Add my voice to those who thought _Speaker for the Dead_ was interesting and valuable, but a major change from _Ender’s Game._ I read them immediately back-to-back; it probably would have been better to wait a while so the shift wasn’t so shocking. I didn’t care much for _Xenocide_ and I wasn’t able to finish _Children of the Mind._ > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > **…I have been really dissapointed by sequels in ever genre, but especially in Sci-Fi.** Have you read _The Conqueror’s Trilogy_ by Timothy Zahn? Pretty lightweight stuff, and Zahn ain’t no Delaney (hell, he ain’t even a Cherryh), but all three books are reasonably entertaining brainless fluff, if you can get past the dopey disembodied-spirit thing. Of course, it was always conceived as a trilogy, so it doesn’t suffer much from “sequelitis” where the writer is trying to come up with additional events to follow a book he originally wrote as a standalone. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/23 "2003-05-01T01:36:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nangleator \* > \*\*The Honor Harrington series (by Stephen Weber) keeps up marvelously well. The later books focus more intently on strategy and politics, but that’s a natural progression for a naval officer who is advancing in rank. > > Still, you’ve got almost a dozen books in a row, of equal quality. That’s a good, long read. \*\* That’s _David_ Weber; he did collaborate on a series with Steve White, though. And I agree with your assessment of the Harrington books. On the OP topic, I’ve never gotten into the Ender books (although I did read the original story) but I’m a big fan of the Alvin Maker series ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/24 "2003-05-01T01:49:02Z")
Add my voice to the chorus of support for SFTD, with the same reservations regarding the difference in tone. I didn’t personally enjoy the Shadow books as much as I did the Speaker sequels, although they were still fun. They focus on the political side of Ender’s Game far more than the philosophy of SFTD, and give detail to the future Earth hinted at in the Val/Peter passages of Ender’s Game. Card inserts a lot of his own personal politics into the Shadow books, something that irked me. Admittedly, this is partly due to my disagreement with his conservative stances, but it also sucked out some of the magic of the Enderverse simply because the characters began taking a back seat to the plot and political meanderings. I loved Ender’s Game because I empathized with Ender, and because the characters were so well-fleshed out in the context of the tale. I don’t feel a similar level of sympathy for any of the main characters in the Shadow books. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/25 "2003-05-01T01:49:44Z")
I really like **Speaker For the Dead** with the Piggies and Jane. Like others have said, it’s very different from **Ender’s Game** , and there are very few times when the books in the series refer back to Battle School except when they talk about the Buggers. The Bean Series is going the same way as the Ender Series did, i.e. it lacks is quality as it goes on. **Shadow of the Hedgemon** is a good sequel to **Ender’s Shadow** , but **Shadow Puppets** is, in my opinion, awful. But one neat aspect is that while the Ender Series continues with Ender and Valentine and their hatred/fear of Peter Wiggin, the Bean Series shifts it’s point of view to Peter, and how he’s rising to world domination while going to school and living with his parents, but at the same time he’s a vulnerable character and different from the way Valentine and Ender remember him. I also liked that Card expanded on Peter, Valentine, and Ender’s parents more in the Bean Series (after **Ender’s Shadow** , that is). ---
**Author:** ![Helena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@Helena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/26 "2003-05-01T02:33:22Z")
I loved **Speaker** but the series just doesn’t _go_ anywhere after that. (I did enjoy the OCD stuff in **Xenocide** , though–that was quite fascinating.) A lot of Card’s series seem to start off really well and then just kind of fizzle. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/27 "2003-05-01T04:09:53Z")
Oh I loved the mind game, the battle, the moral dilemma. What I felt was weak was the political stuff. The only good thing about the Warsaw Pact against the Hegemony was Peter. It doesn’t look like Card got into him later in the series. I’d love to read about how the terrible monster ended up ruling over a Pax Americana. I think that’s why Ender’s Shadow sounds like the book for me. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/28 "2003-05-01T04:25:07Z")
I loved _EG_, _SFTD_ **and** _ES_. They’re my top 3 out of the whole “Ender” oeuvre. When I read _EG_, I felt as though I’d had a spiritual experience. I will always be grateful to the boy who lent me his copy. When I read _SFTD_, I felt as though I’d had a spiritual experience again, but the payoff was a little slower. I had patience though, and it paid off. Oh boy did it ever. _Ender’s Shadow_ felt as though it had more “action” to me. Just MHO. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/29 "2003-05-01T04:55:21Z")
I recently reread the entire tetralogy and would definitely recommend reading _Speaker for the Dead_. _Xenocide_ and _Children of the Mind_ are interesting but you may (or may not) find the religious overtones annoying. Peter does return at the end of _Xenocide_, sorta, so you might find that interesting. I can’t strongly recommend _Ender’s Shadow_. They’re ok, but not essential. I haven’t read _Shadow Puppets_ yet. ---
**Author:** ![GarniGal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@GarniGal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GarniGal)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/30 "2003-05-01T17:50:43Z")
I have this problem - if a book is part of a series, I have to read all of the books in the series, in order. I would recommend reading the sequels, and the Shadow books. If you liked Ender’s Game, you will find something redeeming about all of them, even if you don’t really love them. I would disagree with the “lack of hard science” comment re. Speaker, Xenocide, and Children. I think the trick is the shift in hard science from military application to genetics and social engineering. For those who enjoyed Speaker, Xenocide and Children, may I recommend the Foundation series (Asimov I think). I was surprised (not an major Asimov fan), but I loved it - it’s based on the premise that psychology can be measured like any hard science. ---
**Author:** ![konzar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac8455/32.png) [@konzar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/konzar)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/31 "2003-05-01T18:25:17Z")
YES YES YES YES YES Read it! I read 3 to 4 books a week and “Speaker for the Dead” is my all-time favorite novel ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/32 "2003-05-01T18:44:03Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by jkusters_ > I didn’t like Xenocide much, mostly because of his very negative depiction of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Unfortunately it was about that time that I read some articles he wrote for a Mormon newsletter, some of them regarding homosexuality (comparing it to OCD). The fact that the person afflicted with OCD in Xenocide was pretty much evil and that he compared being gay with OCD really soured me to his writing from that point onward. Strange, I’ve read the EG+SFTD+X+COTM 3 times and didn’t get the same impression. Especially since there was more than one character in X with OCD, and the different characters made different choices–one major OCD character made the “right” choice, and one made the “wrong” choice. So? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/33 "2003-05-01T21:28:05Z")
Easy answer: Did you like the last chapter of Ender’s Game? Did you think, “Oh, good. All that annoying action is over, and now we can get down to the business of deep, insightful analyses of xeno-culture.”? Then you’d like Speaker for the Dead. (And maybe you even were heard to sigh, “Gosh, if only there’d been more Catholics and pigs and people speaking Portugese…”) ---
**Author:** ![Lsura](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/34 "2003-05-01T22:40:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bean\_shadow \* > \*\*The Bean Series is going the same way as the Ender Series did, i.e. it lacks is quality as it goes on. **Shadow of the Hedgemon** is a good sequel to **Ender’s Shadow** , but **Shadow Puppets** is, in my opinion, awful. \*\* I could never get into SFTD and the others that are directly in the Ender series, though I did like the Ender’s Shadow books - until _Shadow Puppets_. I definitely agree with **bean\_shadow** that it was simply awful. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/35 "2003-05-02T02:22:32Z")
Oh yes. _Shadow Puppets_ is a travesty alright. I couldn’t believe what I was reading. It was as though OSC just became another hack. Please stay away. It’s a disappointment. It’s tripe. ---
**Author:** ![RawkStah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@RawkStah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RawkStah)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/36 "2003-05-02T03:50:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PVenkman \* > \*\*They’re much more about moral questions and philosophy, with science there only to set up the situations. \*\* Correct me if I’m wrong (and I likely am), but, isn’t that the whole point of science fiction? ---
**Author:** ![jkusters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jkusters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkusters)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180/37 "2003-05-02T04:01:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by emarkp \* > \*\*Strange, I’ve read the EG+SFTD+X+COTM 3 times and didn’t get the same impression. Especially since there was more than one character in X with OCD, and the different characters made different choices–one major OCD character made the “right” choice, and one made the “wrong” choice. So? \*\* All I can say now is that I read the book when it first came out in hardback, and the only memory I have is of a woman who traced lines on the floor in a home, and that I thought she was pretty villianous. That and some of the ansible stuff. It seemed to me, at the time, that he was making a connectiong between the woman’s OCD and villianous acts she committed or allowed to be committed. I’ve read hundreds of books since then, and for the life of me I can’t recall any more detail than that. At some point I’ll probably go and reread it and will have a completely different impression (this frequently happens with me). JOhn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-am-way-late-but-i-just-read-enders-game-and-i-have-a-question/172180.md?page=1)