# Yes, I fucking LOVE filling out affirmative action surveys during a job interview! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2003, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547 "2003-08-07T07:15:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/21 "2003-08-08T15:08:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tlw \* > \*\*If it is offensive or bothersome to you, the best thing to do is simply refrain from providing the data. It is a completely voluntary endeavor. > > To intentionally provide false data to skew data that can be used to help improve the diversity of your workplace is just juvenile and unprofessional. If you don’t want to share your information in a totally anonymous fashion, that’s one thing, but to lie? There’s just no excuse. \*\* **tlw** , with all due respect, I do not give a flying fuck about diversity (whatever that means, I always thought individual human beings were inherently diverse) in the workplace. I _do_ however care that the people I work with are the most competent for the job. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/22 "2003-08-08T15:22:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mornea \* > \*\*So what do you do when it’s time for the face-to-face interview? \*\* The thing is, the forms that ask for racial/ethnic information are not supposed to be correlated _at all_ with your specific employment application. That would be discrimination. The information is supposed to be used as stated above to gather statistics to make sure that their employment process in general invites minority applicants, etc. So whatever he fills out on the form _should be_ totally irrelevant to and disconnected from a face-to-face interview, but he could tell who was “cheating” when they were obviously trying to hide previous knowledge (although false) of his ethnic background in the interview. I don’t suppose he got the job. ---
**Author:** ![andymurph64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@andymurph64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andymurph64)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/23 "2003-08-08T15:46:13Z")
Mornea, It has been my experience that the people scheduling the interviews are different from the ones that interview you and can actually hire you. Therefore, the first group is a hurdle to get over. The second group doesn’t even know how/why the first group is doing. Once you actually interview with the people you will be working with then you can dazzle them with your personality/skills/competence in talking about the position. When I was younger, I interviewed like crap. Now, IMHO, I am darn good in an interview. The first group can’t hire you but can stop you from being allowed to see the people that can hire you. Anything you can do to get past them is perfectly ok IMO. Teaching is a whole different ball of wax. I am convinced that these forms are not anonymous. I just do it there to be a jerk - I hate racism in all forms and will try to subvert the racist process that condones it (like these forms). ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/24 "2003-08-08T16:15:20Z")
**andymurph** , when they toss your amplication because they’ve reached their quota on “blacks” (or the person reading it automatically thinks you’re lazy and “ghetto”), you’ll get your just dessert. Lying on an application is grounds for firing. > [@](#): > > I just do it there to be a jerk - I hate racism in all forms and will try to subvert the racist process that condones it (like these forms). If they ask for your gender, is that sexism? If they ask for your place of birth, is that regionalism? If they ask where you went to school, is that schoolism? Good googly moogly, people. If you don’t want to answer the damn question, leave it blank. But you aren’t subverting anything by lying on an application, unless you lie on everything else that isn’t relevant to qualifications. People who lie about their race on applications irritate me. They claim something else when they think they’re boldly “taking on the system”, but do they pay the price that comes with being what they say they are? No. It must be so wonderful to be that brave. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![andymurph64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@andymurph64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andymurph64)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/25 "2003-08-08T16:39:54Z")
Gender should not be a factor on any jobs I apply for so yes. Place of birth is none of their business and should not be a factor for any job I apply for so yes again. Education is a valid concern for the employer so, IMO, they have every right to ask for this. So, while it is ‘schoolism’, it is not ‘none of their business’. Also, it isn’t on the application so I am not lying on it. It is supposed to be an anonymous form filled out after the application is sent in. If they connect the two when they said they would not, then that is their problem. Also, if the data is connected in some way on your application and you leave it blank, I would bet dollars to donuts that leaving it blank will assumed to be ‘white’ by the people using the data. My sex, race, place of birth, marital status, etc. are none of their business! I resent anyone basing hiring decisions on any of these factors that have nothing to do with how well I can do the job. I’m not trying to be brave, as you say, but get irritated at people that think it is perfectly ok to exclude someone from a position because of their race, sex, etc. ---
**Author:** ![sperfur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9adbd/32.png) [@sperfur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sperfur)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/26 "2003-08-08T17:25:59Z")
Just because you _look_ white, that doesn’t mean you _are_ white. One or both of your parents may very well be black, latino, asian, etc. So, if they are cheating and ‘know’ your race ahead of time then decide you lied when you walk into the interview, they really don’t know any such thing. I am almost finished reading Malcolm X’s autobiography. In it, he mentions (keep in mind this was written in the '60s) people of black parentage who are ‘passing’ as white. I’m sure that with the increased bi-racial marriages in today’s society, there are even more people of minority parentage that _look_ caucasian. So when you walk into that interview and they assume you lied, its just an assumption. Now lying about your gender, OTOH… Unless you’re Pat, I can’t see anyone falling for that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/27 "2003-08-08T17:43:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satisfying Andy Licious \* > \*\*I am goddamned sick and tired of smoking, steaming shits like you who say “that white man over there has a job, so it’s just the same as _you_ having a job.” When will you learn that we are individual human beings, bitch? > > So maybe I’m just going to start adopting your shit-for-brains rhetoric. “That minority member over there has a job, so you can’t complain about being discriminated against.” > > Or, to put it another way, “that woman over there has a dick up her ass, so evidentlly cher3 has a dick up her ass.” \*\* The OP stated that he assumed he wasn’t getting a job because he’s a skilled, white male. Show me the evidence that skilled, white, males are having any more trouble getting jobs right now than anyone else. Oh, I forgot, we don’t have to provide any evidence to consider here, just venom. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/28 "2003-08-09T04:51:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cher3 \* > \*\*Recent unemployment statistics by age, sex, and race: > > [http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104716.html](http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104716.html) > > Seems to me that white males still have relatively little to whine about. \*\* That’s small consolation to the person (of any race) who’s unemployed. Statistics are intersting until you become one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satisfying_Andy_Licious)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/29 "2003-08-09T05:20:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cher3 \* > \*\*The OP stated that he assumed he wasn’t getting a job because he’s a skilled, white male. Show me the evidence that skilled, white, males are having any more trouble getting jobs right now than anyone else. > > Oh, I forgot, we don’t have to provide any evidence to consider here, just venom. \*\* Telling someone who is facing discrimination that they have “little to whine about” is venom enough, you ugly pig-nipple. You want statistics? Fine. Look up the fact that by far the absolute largest group of poor people in the United States are white. Who the fuck do you think affirmative action discriminates against? It’s not the white folks with last names like “Kennedy” or “Bush.” Ignorant bitch. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/30 "2003-08-09T13:39:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Telling someone who is facing discrimination that they have “little to whine about” is venom enough, you ugly pig-nipple. And what evidence is there that he’s facing discrimination? None! That’s the whole point! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/31 "2003-08-09T17:40:19Z")
CA is likely to embark on an interesting experiment by disallowing the goverment to collect data about the race of it’s citizens (with a few exceptions such as data for medical research). This may not change what is being done at private companies, but often the private firms implement policies that mirror what is done by the government or that need to pass muster for some government regulation. It’s not getting much press, and I have to say I was surprised at the low level of interested in the thread I started in GD on this subject. If enacted, which seems, this will have a much bigger impact on society than something like Prop 209 (ending affirmative action in CA) did several years ago. [CA Proposition 54](http://www.racialprivacy.org/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/32 "2003-08-09T17:45:23Z")
Oops: “If enacted, which seems,” should have been “If enacted, which seems **likely** ,” ---
**Author:** ![Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satisfying_Andy_Licious)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2003, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/33 "2003-08-10T07:14:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pizzabrat \* > \*\*And what evidence is there that he’s facing discrimination? None! That’s the whole point! \*\* Then why ask for race and sex on a job application in the first place? As for cher3, she used the key word “whining.” My experience is that those who accuse white males of “whining” when they face discrimination are people with _support_ anti-male, anti-white discrimination. And to those people I say, fuck you, fuck your family, fuck your dog if you aren’t already, and fuck anyone who thinks like you. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/34 "2003-08-10T07:23:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pizzabrat \* > \*\*And what evidence is there that he’s facing discrimination? None! That’s the whole point! \*\* Well, I have a small (couple dozen companies worth) amount of proof. Here in Ak, there are several companies run by “Native Corporations”. I’m not a “bureau of Indian Affairs” expert, but in a nutshell. native Alaskans demanded, and got, a MUCH better deal from the US than the Native Americans got. They kept their own land and villages, and formed corporations and are paid dividends by the state (aside from the AK PFD), simply for being native. Many of the corporations run business too, a lot of them in the oil and oil related fields. Each of those businesses has a PUBLISHED (they put it in the newspaper ad) and in house policy of “Native hire preference”. Their stated policy is: 1.) corporation natives (for instance Inupiat)" first 2.) other Alaskan natives second 3.) native American tribes third 4.) other minorities fourth and white males last on the hire preference, if none of the above minorities can be found for the position. Now, I’ve never seen a single company whose published policy is “middle-aged white man hire preference”. (if any company DID try that they’d be in court so fast they wouldn’t know what hit them). Nor SHOULD there be. But imo, neither should there be a "this race or that race MUST be considered for our hiring purposes. It should be first and ONLY “the person most qualified for the job”. PERIOD. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2003, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/35 "2003-08-10T08:08:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrSarcasticus \* > \*\* > > Sorry for being white and skilled. I guess that’s my curse. \*\* Skilled at being a pompous blowhard is not going to get you any jobs, Captain Charm. Your skill in half assed misanthropy can get you an internship with Dr. Laura. I think waking up every day as you is your curse. ---
**Author:** ![Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satisfying_Andy_Licious)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2003, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/36 "2003-08-10T08:28:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > **Skilled at being a pompous blowhard is not going to get you any jobs, Captain Charm.** At least when skilled, competent and qualified people get a job, they know they earned it. > [@](#): > > \*\*Your skill in half assed misanthropy can get you an internship with Dr. Laura. > \*\* Oh, just get it over with and call him a Nazi for disagreeing with you. Because the only reason he doesn’t want to be discriminated against must be that he wants to keep oppressed people down, right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2003, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/37 "2003-08-10T09:40:52Z")
You know, **mockingbird** , I have lurked here and posted here sporadically. I used to think that you were witty and insightful. Now you have shown yourself to be a bitter man. I would hope that you can find it in yourself to find the positive parts of life rather than trying to drag everyone else down with you. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/38 "2003-08-10T17:55:04Z")
> [@](#): > > _Satisfying Andy Licious_ > As for cher3, she used the key word “whining.” My experience is that those who accuse white males of “whining” when they face discrimination are people with support anti-male, anti-white discrimination. And to those people I say, fuck you, fuck your family, fuck your dog if you aren’t already, and fuck anyone who thinks like you. …God, what a whiner. Hey, if it’s so hard to be a white man in America, why don’t you just move? ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/39 "2003-08-10T18:02:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by keturah \* > \*\*You know, **mockingbird** , > I have lurked here and posted here sporadically. I used to think that you were witty and insightful. Now you have shown yourself to be a bitter man. I would hope that you can find it in yourself to find the positive parts of life rather than trying to drag everyone else down with you. \*\* Okay… try to read both our posts for context. He focuses on being WHITE. He then complains because he’s not a veteran, handicapped, or female. Everyone gets a better deal than he does. Poor him. Regarding your perception of me: Bitter? You have no clue, which is pretty obvious on how you can defend him and come up with such half assed comments about me based on a single post as you liked the previous ones you read. His curse is being him. Your curse seems to be reading comprehension. Your curse can be alleviated, his is permanent. I diagnose it as Chronic Entitleitis. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547/40 "2003-08-10T18:04:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satisfying Andy Licious \* > \*\*At least when skilled, competent and qualified people get a job, they know they earned it. > > Oh, just get it over with and call him a Nazi for disagreeing with you. > Because the only reason he doesn’t want to be discriminated against must be that he wants to keep oppressed people down, right? > :rolleyes: \*\* Wow. Are you taking my post out of context enough? Yeah… Dr. Laura who is JEWISH is an easy comparison to being a Nazi. :wally [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-fucking-love-filling-out-affirmative-action-surveys-during-a-job-interview/193547.md?page=3)