# Yes, I know we've done the Pat Buchanan is a fucking racist thing before. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601 "2009-10-21T13:59:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/41 "2009-10-22T05:37:19Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > So, Pat Buchanan is **Starving Artist**? :eek: Has anyone ever seen them together? **eleanor** , you ignorant slut! I have over 8,000 posts to this board. Kindly point to one. single. post. of mine that expresses a belief in what **LavenderBlue** said. > [@Captain Carrot](#): > > Dear God don’t drag him in here. Too late. > [@Biggirl](#): > > I’m sorry Real AmericansTM, I’ll try not to usurp your power too stridently with my brown skin of awesomeness. And the Henry Louis Gates Award for Unjustified Racial Offense goes to… **Biggirl**! Yay, yay. Applause. Applause. Buchanan for all his faults was not talking about race in his final sentence or in his final three sentences. (Furthermore, and contrary to popular opinion, neither objecting to affirmative action nor benefits for illegal aliens is racist.) In that column, Buchanan was talking about responsible law abiding mainstream Christian and conservative citizens who go to work each day and pay their taxes and expect a well-run government in return (or at least one that delivers what it promises), and the fact that what they are getting instead is a govenment that is out of control, [deficit] spending like drunken sailors, propping up businesses that don’t deserve it, and then allowing people to flood into the country and break the law, and then paying for their education and health needs when they do. Not everything that benefits a person who is non-white is good, and not everything that is a detriment to a person who is non-white is bad. We have immigration laws here. You know, just like every other country on the planet. Thinking that those laws should be enforced is not racist! If anything those who think they shouldn’t be enforced are racist, because they (you) favor preferential treatment for certain lawbreakers based solely on the color of their skin. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/42 "2009-10-22T08:37:47Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > [This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=525382&highlight=Buchanan) guy got it right. Did you seriously just quote yourself in the third person? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/43 "2009-10-22T13:19:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Buchanan for all his faults was not talking about race in his final sentence or in his final three sentences. (Furthermore, and contrary to popular opinion, neither objecting to affirmative action nor benefits for illegal aliens is racist.) > > In that column, Buchanan was talking about responsible law abiding mainstream Christian and conservative citizens who go to work each day and pay their taxes and expect a well-run government in return (or at least one that delivers what it promises), and the fact that what they are getting instead is a govenment that is out of control, [deficit] spending like drunken sailors, propping up businesses that don’t deserve it, and then allowing people to flood into the country and break the law, and then paying for their education and health needs when they do. Strange that he was talking about race in all the other sentences, and didn’t bother to specify when he wasn’t in the last three. Are there footnotes to that article that only conservatives can read? **SA** , here’s a handy rule of thumb: people who complain that good Christian whites are “losing the country” are racists. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/44 "2009-10-22T14:15:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **SA** , here’s a handy rule of thumb: people who complain that good Christian whites are “losing the country” are racists. I’d like to add that the type of person who complains about illegal immigrants waving Mexican flags, while conveniently not mentioning St. Patrick’s Day Parades etc seems to have higher than average chance of being a racist. Just in my personal experience, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/45 "2009-10-22T14:43:02Z")
Why **SA** , how could I have been so wrong? Of course when Pat talks about marching with Mexican flags while destroying this country, he’s not insulting me. When he talks about the Obamas benefitting from AA, he’s not insulting me. Noooooo. It’s those other Black and Hispanic people he’s saying aren’t real, traditional Americans. Since I’m both African American AND hispanic plus an atheist, I’m sure he’s including me with those hard working real people. No way is he trying to say that me and mine are nothing but get-over artists. He’s not implying that what I accomplished isn’t due to my own hard work but the work of Traditional Americans who oh, so stupidly hire inferior non-Trads because of AA. He’s not straight out telling me that me and mine are stealing from and destroying this country. Ayeup, not a trace of bigotry in that story. I don’t know what I was thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/46 "2009-10-22T14:48:14Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Since I’m both African American AND hispanic plus an atheist… Oh, come on, now you’re just being difficult. You can’t expect people to have enough empathy to encompass _that_ kind of minority status. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/47 "2009-10-22T15:27:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And the Henry Louis Gates Award for Unjustified Racial Offense . . . :rolleyes: > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Buchanan for all his faults was not talking about race . . . > > In that column, Buchanan was talking about responsible law abiding mainstream Christian and conservative citizens who go to work each day and pay their taxes and expect a well-run government in return . . . Let’s look at the article. On the **one** side, we have the “they” who are “losing their country”: “Traditional Americans” (from the headline) “Middle America” “Whites” “white America” “Middle Pennsylvanians” “white working-class voters” “their Christian faith” – all equated, i.e., clearly intended as different names for the same group. And, on the **other** side, **against** the above, we have: “Pelosi-Reid progressives” “the mainstream media” “illegal aliens” persons “who benefitted from affirmative action,” like “Barack and Michelle Obama” :dubious: If you say Buchanan is not here talking about race, you are either an idiot, a liar, or both. As for the “Oath Keepers,” [the Southern Poverty Law Center knows all about these assholes.](http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=1092) > [@](#): > > **The Second Wave** > Evidence Grows of Far-Right Militia Resurgence > By Larry Keller > > In Pensacola, Fla., retired FBI agent Ted Gunderson tells a gathering of antigovernment “Patriots” that the federal government has set up 1,000 internment camps across the country and is storing 30,000 guillotines and a half-million caskets in Atlanta. They’re there for the day the government finally declares martial law and moves in to round up or kill American dissenters, he says. “They’re going to keep track of all of us, folks,” Gunderson warns. > > Outside Atlanta, a so-called “American Grand Jury” issues an “indictment” of Barack Obama for fraud and treason because, the panel concludes, he wasn’t born in the United States and is illegally occupying the office of president. Other sham “grand juries” around the country follow suit. > > And on the site in Lexington, Mass., where the opening shots of the Revolutionary War were fired in 1775, members of Oath Keepers, a newly formed group of law enforcement officers, military men and veterans, “muster” on April 19 to reaffirm their pledge to defend the U.S. Constitution. “We’re in perilous times … perhaps far more perilous than in 1775,” says the man administering the oath. April 19 is the anniversary not only of the battle of Lexington Green, but also of the 1993 conflagration at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, and the lethal bombing two years later of the Oklahoma City federal building — seminal events in the lore of the extreme right, in particular the antigovernment Patriot movement. > > Almost 10 years after it seemed to disappear from American life, there are unmistakable signs of a revival of what in the 1990s was commonly called the militia movement. From Idaho to New Jersey and Michigan to Florida, men in khaki and camouflage are back in the woods, gathering to practice the paramilitary skills they believe will be needed to fend off the socialistic troops of the “New World Order.” > > One big difference from the militia movement of the 1990s is that the face of the federal government — the enemy that almost all parts of the extreme right see as the primary threat to freedom — is now black. And the fact that the president is an African American has injected a strong racial element into even those parts of the radical right, like the militias, that in the past were not primarily motivated by race hate. Contributing to the racial animus have been fears on the far right about the consequences of Latino immigration. > > Militia rhetoric is being heard widely once more, often from a second generation of ideologues, and conspiracy theories are being energetically revived or invented anew. “Paper terrorism” — the use of property liens, bogus legal documents and “citizens’ grand juries” to attack enemies and, sometimes, reap illegal fortunes — is again proliferating, to the point where the government has set up special efforts to rein in so-called “tax defiers” and to track threats against judges. What’s more, Patriot fears about the government are being amplified by a loud new group of ostensibly mainstream media commentators and politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/48 "2009-10-22T17:53:23Z")
_Guillotines_? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/49 "2009-10-22T18:01:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > : If you say Buchanan is not here talking about race, you are either an idiot, a liar, or both. And if it is about race, so what? Progressives intend to create a “new majority” consisting of a coalition between white progressives, blacks and Hispanics. Towards this end, they have been working to dispossess and disempower middle and working class whites for decades. The tea parties and other manifestations of discontent we’ve seen recently are in large part a response to that political and cultural war against middle and working class whites. Now they’re becoming radicalized in ways you don’t like, they’re finally fighting back. They’re not singing hymns to the wonders and beauty of diversity while they drink the Kool-Aid they way you think they should. You don’t like that. You want them to just shut up and do as they’re told. Deny it, and you’re the one who’s either an idiot, a liar or both. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > As for the “Oath Keepers,” [the Southern Poverty Law Center knows all about these assholes.](http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=1092) Christ, you’re dumb enough that you still take the $PLC seriously? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/50 "2009-10-22T18:09:00Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Why **SA** , how could I have been so wrong? Of course when Pat talks about marching with Mexican flags while destroying this country, he’s not insulting me. When he talks about the Obamas benefitting from AA, he’s not insulting me. Noooooo. It’s those other Black and Hispanic people he’s saying aren’t real, traditional Americans. Look, you dumb slut, if hundreds of thousands of gringos paraded in Mexico waving American flags, insisting that the land really belonged to them and that Mexico should amend it’s laws to their liking, you would have no trouble recognizing the blatant aggression involved. But because whites are the targets and not the perpetrators, you think it’s no big deal and no one should be upset about it. Your problem isn’t that whites are “racist.” Your problem is that they won’t just lie down and die, and get out of your way. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/51 "2009-10-22T18:13:54Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Christ, you’re dumb enough that you still take the $PLC seriously? Yeah, when have they ever been right? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/52 "2009-10-22T18:27:43Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > And if it is about race, so what? > > Progressives intend to create a “new majority” consisting of a coalition between white progressives, blacks and Hispanics. Towards this end, they have been working to dispossess and disempower middle and working class whites for decades. Why do you exlude white progressives\* from the middle class, not to mention the working class? Do you think only rich Hollywood white folk support things like universal health care, livable wages, and green technology? What, exactly, are progressives doing to dispossess and disempower the white people you are talking about? Pat makes the same lament, but never gets around to explaining the mechanism by which all this disenfranchisment is occuring. Can they vote? Yes. Can they write their congressmen? Yes. Is anyone trying to keep them from conducting peaceful protest? No. Are they subject to unfair detainment, incarceration, or harrassment that is sanctioned by the government? Paint us a clearer picture here. I’m not going to deny that there isn’t suffering going on. Of course there is. The question is 1) why do these white folk you are talking about think they are suffering more than anyone else and 2) why do they blame progressives for their suffering and not the conservatives who were in office less than a year ago and the preceding 8 years? Why are they blaming the government at all, and not focusing their attention on the uncontrolled free market that many of them pay lip service to but only when it works in their favor? \*I need a working definition for this please. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/53 "2009-10-22T18:31:28Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Look, you dumb slut, if hundreds of thousands of gringos paraded in Mexico waving American flags, insisting that the land really belonged to them and that Mexico should amend it’s laws to their liking, you would have no trouble recognizing the blatant aggression involved. But because whites are the targets and not the perpetrators, you think it’s no big deal and no one should be upset about it. > > Your problem isn’t that whites are “racist.” Your problem is that they won’t just lie down and die, and get out of your way. Yeah, last St. Patrick’s Day, I took a gun into downtown Manhattan and gave all those whities what for. What, no I didn’t, you fucking asshole. Stand back, peckerwood. The coloreds are coming and we’re taking ova, yo! Nothing but a sea of metzos and blacks for as far as the eye can see, so go ahead and ride your Storm straight to the Front. Don’t forget your hood and your burning cross-- I hear from some guy named Bucanan that it’s coming back in style. Oh and since I usually don’t make it a habit to talk to racist dumbfucks, I probably won’t be rising to your race-bait again. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/54 "2009-10-22T18:40:48Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Christ, you’re dumb enough that you still take the $PLC seriously? Yes… and not yet dumb enough to take you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/55 "2009-10-22T18:49:13Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > And if it is about race, so what? > > Progressives intend to create a “new majority” consisting of a coalition between white progressives, blacks and Hispanics. Um… why? What exactly is the common cause between these three groups? What social or political issues do these groups agree on? Gay rights? Not real popular with blacks. Abortion? I don’t see the largely Catholic Hispanics getting all fired up about that. Affirmative action? What’s in it for the rich white folks? Screwing the poor? Two thirds of the coalition is already largely poor, why would they want to screw themselves? Kill whitey? I think the white progressives are going to see the obvious drawback for themselves there. You seem to have picked three groups for which you have a pre-existing hatred, and assumed an alliance between them that makes no rational sense. I don’t know. Maybe if I started drinking Sterno straight from the can, the way you evidently do, this whole plot would suddenly come into focus. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/56 "2009-10-22T20:23:45Z")
Well, I’m a white working/middle class progressive. I don’t know if I need to do something to keep people like me from be oppressed by people like me, or if I’m just getting too uppity for my own good. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/57 "2009-10-22T20:24:10Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Why do you exlude white progressives\* . . . > > \*I need a working definition for this please. [I define it as something well to the left of “liberal” and well to the right of “socialist,”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496350) but that is probably not what Buchanan nor **LonesomePolecat** means by the word. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/58 "2009-10-22T20:28:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [I define it as something well to the left of “liberal” and well to the right of “socialist,”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496350) but that is probably not what Buchanan nor **LonesomePolecat** means by the word. And in another irony, probably also completely dissimilar to the historical meaning of Progressive. I say ironic because the original Progressives were as close to the opposite of an anti-scientific political group as you could think up. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/59 "2009-10-22T20:32:31Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > And if it is about race, so what? So it makes Buchanan a racist, as if there were any doubt. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Progressives intend to create a “new majority” consisting of a coalition between white progressives, blacks and Hispanics. Towards this end, they have been working to dispossess and disempower middle and working class whites for decades. :rolleyes: To call that “bullshit” would be a slander on the integrity of bovine feces. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > The tea parties and other manifestations of discontent we’ve seen recently are in large part a response to that political and cultural war against middle and working class whites. Now they’re becoming radicalized in ways you don’t like, they’re finally fighting back. No “finally” about it, it’s essentially the same thing as George Wallace’ presidential campaign in 1968 and many earlier phenomena, and indefensible then and now. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Christ, you’re dumb enough that you still take the $PLC seriously? When it comes to tracking hate groups, and the “Oath Keepers” unmistakeably fit that description, the best nongovernmental sources are the SPLC and the ADL. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601/60 "2009-10-22T20:37:51Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > And in another irony, probably also completely dissimilar to the historical meaning of Progressive. I say ironic because the original Progressives were as close to the opposite of an anti-scientific political group as you could think up. Click the link; I know **all about** the early-20th-Century Progressives. But words change over time. E.g., “liberal” no longer means what is now meant by “libertarian” and should never be used in that sense. Nor is “anti-scientific” a fair characterization of the “progressive” position as I am defining it. :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-i-know-weve-done-the-pat-buchanan-is-a-fucking-racist-thing-before/514601.md?page=4)