# Yes! Kenneth Lay is DEAD!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261 "2006-07-05T21:23:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/1 "2006-07-05T21:23:46Z")
Nothing could have cheered me up this morning more than this: [Enron founder Kenneth Lay dies at 64](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060705/ap_on_bi_ge/obit_lay) Too bad he escaped Earthly judgment, and it doesn’t sound like he suffered very long. But I’d love to see the look on his face when he reaches the pearly gates, as St. Peter sadly shakes his head and points to the fiery door on the left… WHO’S THE ENERGY BITCH NOW, eh Kenny-boy? Rot in hell, you scam artist fuckwad. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/2 "2006-07-05T21:25:24Z")
Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/3 "2006-07-05T21:29:39Z")
I believe this is vastly more suited for the Pit. I’ll move it there for ya’. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/4 "2006-07-05T21:33:04Z")
Let’s take a deep breath now. It’s one thing to be upset with a person’s actions, it’s quite another to rejoice in their death. ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/5 "2006-07-05T21:33:54Z")
Dude. The man was a jackass, to be sure. I would have cheered to see him sentenced to a nice long stretch in prison. I would have laughed at him. But I didn’t wish him DEAD. That’s just wrong. And also very tacky. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/6 "2006-07-05T21:38:27Z")
In keeping with my view that all life is sacred, I cannot be happy that a human being has died. I used to “high five” over the news of a convicted killer getting the chair, but I grew out of that. I just cannot find the joy in the death of a fellow man. I used to think gun camera views of US helicopters destroying Iraqi tanks was cool. I used to watch Faces of Death, peeking between my fingers. But somehow I just canot muster a smile at the news of another person’s death. His actions were dispicable, and he deserved punishment. But for anyone to presume to believe in a St. Peter, then know which direction he will direct any one of us upon our arrival, well it just seems a bit shallow. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/7 "2006-07-05T21:40:14Z")
I’ve always figured it’s bad karma to wish someone dead, but okay to rejoice that someone ended up dead, as long as you didn’t wish it. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/8 "2006-07-05T21:40:28Z")
My question is, will it be open casket and how many witnesses will see the dead body? This guy has enough money to fake his death and retire to anywhere if he wanted to avoid a jail sentence. When I heard the news I had to wonder about the plotting to steal all that money and screw so many people. No matter what kind of heinous bullshit you try to get away with, it ultimately ends the same way. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/9 "2006-07-05T21:41:35Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Nothing could have cheered me up this morning more than this: [Enron founder Kenneth Lay dies at 64](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060705/ap_on_bi_ge/obit_lay) > > Too bad he escaped Earthly judgment, and it doesn’t sound like he suffered very long. But I’d love to see the look on his face when he reaches the pearly gates, as St. Peter sadly shakes his head and points to the fiery door on the left… > > WHO’S THE ENERGY BITCH NOW, eh Kenny-boy? Rot in hell, you scam artist fuckwad. And if you believe in a Christian version of Heaven and Hell, as you reference in your OP, you are aware that no matter how egregious Kenny-boy’s crimes may have been, he could very well have been granted access to Heaven. Of course maybe your reference was just a literary device. Dunno. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/10 "2006-07-05T21:42:57Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > My question is, > > will it be open casket and how many witnesses will see the dead body? > > This guy has enough money to fake his death and retire to anywhere if he wanted to avoid a jail sentence. > > When I heard the news I had to wonder about the plotting to steal all that money and screw so many people. No matter what kind of heinous bullshit you try to get away with, it ultimately ends the same way. Now this is a great question. I was wondering about it earlier today. He could get a nose job and a chin implant, fake his death and live out his life in style on the beaches of Fiji. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/11 "2006-07-05T21:43:22Z")
Wow died of a heart attack. Who would have thought he had a heart to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/12 "2006-07-05T21:43:28Z")
Ken Lay was about as big an asshole as it’s possible to be without using violence. He ruined countless lives. I don’t rejoice in his death, but I’m not sorry to see him go. I would have liked to see him in an orange jumpsuit, though. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/13 "2006-07-05T21:47:52Z")
Ken Lay is the biggest piece of scum possible. But I’m _sorry_ that he is dead. I wnated him to be uncomfortable and humiliated for long, long time. I also wanted to be able to point to him to remind the next scumbag-in-training who is tempted to “get creative” of where he could end up. But since he is dead, good riddance. Let’s hope there is some type of retribution on the other side. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/14 "2006-07-05T21:51:06Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > I believe this is vastly more suited for the Pit. I’ll move it there for ya’. Thanks, I meant to post it here originally, but my finger slipped. :smack: > [@newcrasher](#): > > In keeping with my view that all life is sacred, I cannot be happy that a human being has died. You are correct, it’s wrong to rejoice in the death of a fellow human being. However… (1) Kenneth Lay & his cronies defrauded stockholders out of billions of dollars, including all Enron employees who were _required_ to invest all their 401(k) money in Enron stock, then were locked out of accessing their accounts as the company started to implode, while the corporate execs grabbed their golden parachutes and sold off millions… (2) Enron manufactured the whole California energy crisis, manipulating loopholes in the system to artifically drive up prices and cause rolling blackouts during a time when there was plenty of energy to spare…and thanks to his contacts with the Bush Administration, the federal government did NOTHING, when in fact they were _legally required_ to step in and fix the situation! (3) Worst of all, Ken Lay showed ZERO remorse or guilt for his actions, citing his belief in GOD as an excuse for his actions. When found guilty, he said: > [@Kenneth Lay](#): > > “I firmly believe I’m innocent of the charges against me. We believe that God, in fact, is in control and indeed he does work all things for good for those who love the Lord.” Sorry, that doesn’t sound very human to me. Jeffrey Dahmer was deserving of more sympathy than this sociopathic fuckwad. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/15 "2006-07-05T21:52:03Z")
I’m also sorry he died so soon. It would have been much more satisfying if he had spent a good long time in prison before he expired. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/16 "2006-07-05T21:58:39Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > And if you believe in a Christian version of Heaven and Hell, as you reference in your OP, you are aware that no matter how egregious Kenny-boy’s crimes may have been, he could very well have been granted access to Heaven. Yes, I was being metaphorical. I don’t really know if heaven/hell exist or not. As for the Christian God…well, I don’t think He exists either. But if He does, I would _hope_ He’s wise enough to determine which of his children are truly repentant, apart from those who hide behind their faith to justify their selfish, evil acts. ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/17 "2006-07-05T21:59:38Z")
From reading a couple of the Enron books, I don’t think Lay had that much cash sitting around to be able to “fake” his death and live happily ever after in Fiji. He took out a lot of loans backed by his Enron stock. No sympathy for his losses though, and no great feeling of loss at his death. I suspect Skilling is now going to take the punishment for both of them. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/18 "2006-07-05T22:10:20Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I’ve always figured it’s bad karma to wish someone dead, but okay to rejoice that someone ended up dead, as long as you didn’t wish it. And don’t walk under any ladders! Or cross paths with any black cats! ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/19 "2006-07-05T22:16:05Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Yes, I was being metaphorical. I don’t really know if heaven/hell exist or not. > > As for the Christian God…well, I don’t think He exists either. But if He does, I would _hope_ He’s wise enough to determine which of his children are truly repentant, apart from those who hide behind their faith to justify their selfish, evil acts. I am sure God is well aware of the forgiveness men ask. I am just wondering how **you** know. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/20 "2006-07-05T22:17:19Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Let’s take a deep breath now. > > It’s one thing to be upset with a person’s actions, it’s quite another to rejoice in their death. I’ve always wondered about this attitude. Is there any cut-off point for it? I mean, if we dropped a bomb on Osama bin Laden tomorrow, would it be inappropriate to be happy? Would that be “tacky,” to use **FisherQueen** ’s phrasing? What about Hitler, or Stalin? Are there any situations, in your view, where a person was such a consumate force for evil, that it is acceptable, even desirable, to rejoice at their passing? I’m not saying Ken Lay was such a man; I’m not happy he’s dead. In fact, I’m pretty pissed. The man stole and defrauded people for billions of dollars, and dies at a relatively advanced age, in an enviroment of opulence, surrounded by family. From where I’m sitting, that means he got away with it. (Although I do like to think that his coronary was triggered, at least in part, at his over-whelming, pants-shitting terror at his inevitable incarceration.) But there are quite a few other people on this planet for whom I will dance a merry jig when I hear of their demise, and I don’t feel remotely guilty because of that. There are a lot of people whose very prescense on this Earth make it a worse place for everyone involved, and when they die, the world will become that much better a place to live in. I don’t see anything wrong in celebrating that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261.md?page=2)