# Yes! Kenneth Lay is DEAD!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261 "2006-07-05T21:23:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/21 "2006-07-05T22:25:00Z")
I just wonder what kid of inside dirt about Bush he was offering in exchange for a lighter sentence made Rove and Cheney decide they would be better off with him having a “heart attack” ::shines tinfoil hat:: only mostly kidding… Seriously, didn’t wish him dead, ain’t sorry he is, would have rather seen him behind bars for a very long time. I also wonder who will get his millions? I bet the people he defrauded will see less of it, if any, than his family. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/22 "2006-07-05T22:35:33Z")
I don’t rejoce in anyone’s death and that would include obl. Lay played in the big leagues and he made a big league mistake. Had he been successful, everyone would have lauded his leadership and business acumen. He can be faulted for poor business behavior, but he never deliberately intended to harm anyone. Enron’s failure can be attributed to way beyond Lay’s participation . Obviously he lost more than anyone else. Now concerning the guy who got three years for slitting a cabbie’s throat from behind… ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/23 "2006-07-05T22:38:49Z")
“Every man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind” - John Donne “I ever met a man I didn’t like” - Will Rogers Who are two people who never met Ken Lay? - Bill Door ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/24 "2006-07-05T22:54:12Z")
And who else? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/25 "2006-07-05T22:59:20Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > He can be faulted for poor business behavior, but he never deliberately intended to harm anyone. Given how he deliberately tried to cover up his own idiocy, much to the demonstrable harm of Enron employees and investors, I can’t see how this statement is remotely supportable. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/26 "2006-07-05T23:00:40Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > He can be faulted for poor business behavior, but he never deliberately intended to harm anyone. WHAT? That is disgusting. Are you out of your fucking mind? Tell that to the thousands of people, particulalry seniors, who now have a fixed income way lower than they had. Tell that to the employees who thought their retirements were going to be taken care of. Oh, he KNEW people were going to get hurt, hue just thought that he wouldn’t be found out: “Aw, shucks, the company is gone. But we had some really good years, didn’t we folks?Couldn’t have done it without you.” Do you really think that someone with his knowledge didn’t know that stockholders were going to be left holding the bag? If so, you are a fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/27 "2006-07-05T23:12:01Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > I don’t rejoce in anyone’s death and that would include obl. Lay played in the big leagues and he made a big league mistake. Had he been successful, everyone would have lauded his leadership and business acumen. He can be faulted for poor business behavior, but he never deliberately intended to harm anyone. Enron’s failure can be attributed to way beyond Lay’s participation . Obviously he lost more than anyone else. > > Now concerning the guy who got three years for slitting a cabbie’s throat from behind… Are you nuts? The guy deliberately broke the law to enrich himself, and impoverish the other employees of Enron, and the people of California who bought their energy from him. This wasn’t a “risky business venture,” it was outright, calculated _fraud._ Never deliberately intended to harm anyone? Arguably, that’s so: if he could have gotten all that money without stealing from his employees and customers, I’m sure he would have. But he absolutely knew that his actions would have destructive effects on other people, and he knew that those actions were illegal, and he went ahead and did them anyway. “Poor business behavior?” It’s called “theft,” and it’s not generally considered to be a valid business strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/28 "2006-07-05T23:12:17Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > I don’t rejoce in anyone’s death and that would include obl. Lay played in the big leagues and he made a big league mistake. Had he been successful, everyone would have lauded his leadership and business acumen. No, had he been successful, people would still be howling for his head due to his price gouging antics in California. I don’t rejoice in his death either; as I said in the other thread, I wanted him to live long and suffer in prison and possibly be forced to call a large man named Bubba “daddy”. > [@](#): > > He can be faulted for poor business behavior, but he never deliberately intended to harm anyone. Enron’s failure can be attributed to way beyond Lay’s participation. Obviously he lost more than anyone else. He can be faulted for a complete lack of business ethics as well as breaking several laws. To his attorney’s credit, he was only convicted for a couple of them. He very deliberately stole from his employees and now a lot of hard working people are out of work and out of pensions and retirement earnings because Kenny boy just couldn’t stop himself from being the common thief that he was. “Far beyond his participation”?? Are you high? He took the money, he participated. It wasn’t his to take. > [@](#): > > Now concerning the guy who got three years for slitting a cabbie’s throat from behind… Yes, because Ken Lay was SO much less deserving. He just ruined hundreds of lives and defrauded an entire state. It isn’t as if he actually used _physical violence_. That makes it better. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/29 "2006-07-05T23:35:38Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > I am sure God is well aware of the forgiveness men ask. > > I am just wondering how **you** know. I suppose, it’s within the realm of possibility that at 12:59 a.m. this morning, Kenny-Boy suddenly had a moment of clarity, realized the depth of his sinful behavior, and prayed to God for guidance and absolution. And God said, “YOU ARE FORGIVEN, MY SON. NOW, COME ON HOME.” But…let’s get real. :rolleyes: > [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > He can be faulted for poor business behavior, but he never deliberately intended to harm anyone. Watch the documentary, **Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room**. If you think Ken Lay was guiltless, it will blow your mind. And if you think Ken Lay was the most corrupt, evil human being to walk the earth, it will _still_ blow your mind. (Granted, Kenny-Boy didn’t act alone – Andrew Fastow was the architect of the whole “creative bookkeeping” angle, but he’s already pled guilty and testified against the other CEO’s. True Henry Hill style…) ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/30 "2006-07-05T23:47:11Z")
I cheered out loud when I read the headline this morning, but I must agree that I’d rather see him alive and living out the rest of his life in prison. What Ken Lay did was the socio-economic equivalent of **genocide** , something so heinous, inhuman, and unforgivable that I honestly believe that it puts him (morally? ethically?) beneath child rapists and mass murderers. It’s a shame that we tend to disregard economic “white collar” crimes in the way that we do, because Ken Lay was the Osama Bin Laden of fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/31 "2006-07-06T00:00:12Z")
Meh, I can’t rejoice-I’m sorry the bastard died before he could be sent to federal, pound-me-in-the-ass prison. (TM_Office Space_) Other than that, rot in hell you fucking prick. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/32 "2006-07-06T00:03:50Z")
He’s beneath child rapists?!? Are you out of your fucking mind? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/33 "2006-07-06T00:07:08Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > WHAT? That is disgusting. Are you out of your fucking mind? Tell that to the thousands of people, particulalry seniors, who now have a fixed income way lower than they had. Tell that to the employees who thought their retirements were going to be taken care of. Oh, he KNEW people were going to get hurt, hue just thought that he wouldn’t be found out: “Aw, shucks, the company is gone. But we had some really good years, didn’t we folks?Couldn’t have done it without you.” Do you really think that someone with his knowledge didn’t know that stockholders were going to be left holding the bag? > > If so, you are a fucking idiot. Holy fucking shit-I actually agree with you on something! Is the world coming to an end? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/34 "2006-07-06T00:13:50Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > He’s beneath child rapists?!? Are you out of your fucking mind? I wouldn’t go quite that far. The case _could_ be made that his actions, motivated by greed, affected far more people than even the most prolific of child rapists. Economically, he left a lot of people in a very uncomfortable place. I’m not saying that I agree with it, but I wouldn’t say the remark is raging crazy. As for Kenny, I’m not happy that he is dead, but I’m not sorry either. I would’ve preferred that he die in the orange jump suit surrounded by concrete and bars rather than Aspen surrounded by loved ones. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/35 "2006-07-06T00:24:25Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > He’s beneath child rapists?!? Are you out of your fucking mind? Do you think child rapists want to be child rapists? That they sit down and carefully consider the options and then go out and rape a child? Child rapists would give anything to not be what they are. They can’t help being what they are, any more than a rabid dog could. You might have to put a rabid dog down to protect society, but you don’t blame the dog, you just shoot it in the head and move on. Ken Lay, on the other hand, was not driven by a compulsion. He chose to steal, he chose to bankrupt his stockholders and employees to enrich himself. He committed crimes to profit from them. People will die because of what he did. There are old people who can’t afford their diabetes medication or heat in the winter or even food because his first $300 million in net worth wasn’t enough, he wanted $400 million. He is more guilty than a child rapist. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/36 "2006-07-06T00:26:00Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > (1) Kenneth Lay & his cronies defrauded stockholders out of billions of dollars, including all Enron employees who were _required_ to invest all their 401(k) money in Enron stock, then were locked out of accessing their accounts as the company started to implode, while the corporate execs grabbed their golden parachutes and sold off millions… I don’t believe that employees were required to invest their 401k contributions in company stock. As far as I can tell from a quick web search, the company matching contribution _was_ in company stock but I doubt that even Enron could have _required_ its employees to invest their contributions in company stock. And the crimes weren’t just poor management and manipulation of the California energy market. They also used special purpose entities to keep losses off the company’s books, among other manipulations. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/37 "2006-07-06T00:27:24Z")
It sure is sad to see this high-profile under-investigation case suddenly fall flat because [del]William Casey[/del] Kenneth Lay has died. I wonder if that’s ever happened before. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/38 "2006-07-06T00:39:14Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > He’s beneath child rapists?!? Are you out of your fucking mind? Well, once he’s buried, he’ll be beneath **everyone** , so… OUCH! Who threw that? ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/39 "2006-07-06T00:43:49Z")
> [@Bill Door](#): > > because his first $300 million in net worth wasn’t enough, he wanted $400 million. This is what gets me about Lay - _he was already obscenely wealthy_. What **on earth** was his motivation to do what he did? He was already RICH! In what way could his lifestyle have changed or even improved by getting _more_ money? He screwed over so many people for literally nothing - he was already rich enough that it was just a drop in the ocean. I could even understand a broke guy screwing over people to get rich, but the guy was already completely loaded when he did what he did. It’s absolutely obscene. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/40 "2006-07-06T00:45:25Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > …and thanks to his contacts with the Bush Administration, the federal government did NOTHING, when in fact they were _legally required_ to step in and fix the situation! Are you quite sure about that? [I heard there was a bit more to it…](http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,338580,00.html) Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261.md?page=3)