# Yes! Kenneth Lay is DEAD!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261 "2006-07-05T21:23:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/61 "2006-07-06T02:32:13Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > What about wishing him ALIVE. > > He chose the cowards way out. Justice was not served. Um, dude, he didn’t commit suicide. He died of a heart attack. He may have escaped punishment, but he didn’t _chose_ to. He’s dead. I don’t know what was in his heart, but he ruined a lot of innocent people’s lives with his negligence and deception. Was he evil? Personally, I don’t see evil as much as I see greed and criminal stupidity. Of course, it’s easy for me because I wasn’t personally harmed by him. It does bug me that he was allowed to vacation in his Aspen home a few weeks after being sentenced. He should have been handcuffed and shipped off to jail like other convicted felons. In any event, I was shocked to hear of his death. It shouldn’t have been surprising given the (self-imposed) stress that he went through following the collapse of his company, but I was shocked nonetheless. As far as justice goes, I think that dying at the age of 64, well ahead of the time he probably would have died had he (or his underlings) not pulled all those shenanigans. So I’d say justice was served. Death is a pretty damn severe repercussion. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/62 "2006-07-06T02:32:47Z")
They’ll need to construct a ballroom over his grave to accomodate all the former Enron employees. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/63 "2006-07-06T02:36:55Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > His conviction, impoverishment, (and eventual punishment, administered today) is right on the mark… [Lay, 64, was at his vacation home near Aspen, Colorado](http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2156609) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/64 "2006-07-06T02:37:33Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > I don’t know what was in his heart… Apparently, quite a bit of cholesterol. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/65 "2006-07-06T02:40:14Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > And, in an odd way… Ken Lay died of a broken heart. More like, his brain stem suddenly realized there’s no way out of this legal circus, he’s gonna do time, never mind that it’s at Club Fed (a better life than most of us manage to sustain by WORKING for a living) and his five kids & 12 grandkids can visit every week…but who cares about them? He’ll never be able to _truly_ enjoy all that money he stole. Might as well check out now, leave everyone else behind. After all, God loves him. God will forgive him. :rolleyes: > [@Clothahump](#): > > If Lay had chosen to do that, it is quite possible that Enron would have taken a big hit and the stock price would have fallen, but it would still be in business and Lay would have been hailed as a hero for “discovering” the evildoings in his company. Watch the documentary. Lay was an idiot…his whole vision was, if you’ve got an idea, you should profit from it RIGHT AWAY, before you put the idea into practice. Basically, it’s like I’ve got an idea for a movie, so I should be paid $50,000,000 right now, though it’s not even written down yet. Seriously, that was Enron’s business plan. It was outright fraud from the very beginning. Watch the documentary. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/66 "2006-07-06T02:41:15Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Let me ask you one question > Is your money that good > Will it buy you forgiveness > Do you think that it could > I think you will find > When your death takes its toll > All the money you made > Will never buy back your soul > > And I hope that you die > And your death’ll come soon > I will follow your casket > In the pale afternoon > And I’ll watch while you’re lowered > Down to your deathbed > And I’ll stand o’er your grave > 'Til I’m sure that you’re dead What song is that from? Sounds familiar but I can’t place it… ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/67 "2006-07-06T02:46:14Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > [Lay, 64, was at his vacation home near Aspen, Colorado](http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2156609) Yes, the home that will soon be sold to pay the creditors and the litigants. The process isn’t over, and I stand by my statement. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/68 "2006-07-06T02:49:02Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > What song is that from? Sounds familiar but I can’t place it… [“Masters of War”](http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/masters.html) - **Bob Dylan** ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/69 "2006-07-06T02:51:38Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > What song is that from? Sounds familiar but I can’t place it… Dylan’s [Masters of War](http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/masters.html) Sad thing is, I find a new reason to sing it almost every day. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/70 "2006-07-06T03:05:13Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > They’ll need to construct a ballroom over his grave to accomodate all the former Enron employees. Damn, you beat me to it! Meanwhile, hell readies a room. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/71 "2006-07-06T03:11:14Z")
Not only is Kenny Boy cheating the jailor by kicking the bucket. His timely death may make it much more difficult for his victims and the Feds to recieve recompense. According to the [NYT](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/06/business/06legal.html?hp&ex=1152158400&en=145832db8236d4b0&ei=5094&partner=homepage) > [@](#): > > In yet another bizarre twist to the Enron saga, the sudden death of Kenneth L. Lay on Wednesday may have spared his survivors financial ruin. Mr. Lay’s death effectively voids the guilty verdict against him, temporarily thwarting the federal government’s efforts to seize his remaining real estate and financial assets, legal experts say. ---
**Author:** ![bloo-bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c77e96/32.png) [@bloo-bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bloo-bird)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/72 "2006-07-06T03:27:28Z")
Some conspiracy nutter will run with this, especially since it oddly happened 1 day before Bush’s birthday… ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/73 "2006-07-06T04:04:14Z")
I can’t believe some of you are sayin “Yes, he was eevil, but you are just as bad for celebrating his death.” BULLSHIT! The sorry fuck and his cronies screwed thousands of people out of the best years of their lives. The American Dream, work hard, have kids, buy a house, move on up, and then retire with a decent pension, get a house on the lake maybe, sit on the porch with the grandkids. That’s not a lot to ask out of life is it? But no, this greedy, sleazy evil bastard took it all away, and whined to the end with no remorse. I would celebrate his death except I wish he could have spent HIS retirement years in a 5x9 concrete cell. Rot in Hell Ken Lay, you sorry, evil fuck. I hope you suffered horribly before you died. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/74 "2006-07-06T04:23:18Z")
When I first heard the story, I momentarily thought it was about Tom DeLay. Such disapointment! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/75 "2006-07-06T04:29:02Z")
[vader]I want him _alive_![/vader]. Delay would look reeeal good in a cell. Delmar ‘n’ Cletus shure thank so. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/76 "2006-07-06T04:30:09Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Economically, he left a lot of people in a very uncomfortable place. The back seat of a Volkswagen? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/77 "2006-07-06T05:44:25Z")
> [@5 time champ](#): > > Not only is Kenny Boy cheating the jailor by kicking the bucket. His timely death may make it much more difficult for his victims and the Feds to recieve recompense. According to the [NYT](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/06/business/06legal.html?hp&ex=1152158400&en=145832db8236d4b0&ei=5094&partner=homepage) Maybe suicide? I hope they freeze his assets and try him in abstentia. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/78 "2006-07-06T06:45:29Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > The back seat of a Volkswagen? Yep, maybe sleeping there. Last I heard, (and this is subject to update, I could be wrong) 20,000 ex-Enron employees might get a check for $3500 each from some insurance funds that apparently weren’t looted. Hell of a retirement there. Probably doesn’t even pay the monthly wages of all the hired help in the Aspen house Lay died in. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/79 "2006-07-06T06:54:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’ve always wondered about this attitude. Is there any cut-off point for it? I mean, if we dropped a bomb on Osama bin Laden tomorrow, would it be inappropriate to be happy? Would that be “tacky,” to use **FisherQueen** ’s phrasing? What about Hitler, or Stalin? Are there any situations, in your view, where a person was such a consumate force for evil, that it is acceptable, even desirable, to rejoice at their passing? In my view, no. The very labelling of a person as “evil” automatically smacks of self-righteousness. The question immediately becomes: if (fill in the blank) is evil, how pure are you? “Imperfect, but less evil than (fill in the blank)” you say? If you can admit to being imperfect yourself, you have no position in the judge’s seat. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261/80 "2006-07-06T06:58:23Z")
> [@5 time champ](#): > > Not only is Kenny Boy cheating the jailor by kicking the bucket. His timely death may make it much more difficult for his victims and the Feds to recieve recompense. Except that the article on [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) thinks those assets are still at risk: > [@](#): > > But Lay’s family may still face the music when it comes to the barrage of civil lawsuits filed against him. > > Jacob Zamansky, principal at Zamansky & Associates, a law firm that represents shareholders, said Lay’s estate is still liable for damages. > > “Lay’s passing isn’t going to have any material effect on the civil suits,” Zamansky said. “His testimony is still out there.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-kenneth-lay-is-dead/363261.md?page=5)