# Yes, let's teach the controversy. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 8, 2014, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261 "2014-01-08T08:52:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/41 "2014-01-10T18:36:46Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Environmentalism isn’t for the Earth. It isn’t even for “the environment”, of which there are many which are constantly changing in subtle ways anyway. > > **Environmentalism is for humans.** Wait, it’s not for whales? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/42 "2014-01-10T18:42:29Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Wait, it’s not for whales? No, silly. It’s for _us_ to be able to watch the pretty whales as they break above the water and flip their big ole tails. That’s the only reason _any_ species of animals exist on this planet; to amuse and entertain us. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/43 "2014-01-10T18:56:37Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > Eh, I thought it was kind of entertaining and rather well written. Topic paragraph stating his thesis: check. Examples bolstering his argument: check. Argument for alternative option: check. Summary: check. > > I’ll give him a B+. Man, I’m glad you guys didn’t teach my tenth grade English composition. _C-_ at best. Clarity, brevity and choice of topic all count, and all this effort could’ve been spent on a subject that people want to read. I just had to explain to an angry mom that yes, her darling had awesome written skills, but that I had to grade him down because his witty, creative ramblings had nothing to do with the assigned topic. Come to think of it, I’ll have to check and see if her little Jakey is or has ever been a pizza guy… ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/44 "2014-01-10T19:05:55Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > No, silly. It’s for _us_ to be able to watch the pretty whales as they break above the water and flip their big ole tails. That’s the only reason _any_ species of animals exist on this planet; to amuse and entertain us. Duh. Hey, if the world ain’t for us, it’s for the bacteria and archaea, and they don’t care what the place looks like, because they already live in the Marianas Trench, the Yellowstone paint pots, and deep within the Earth’s crust. Save the whales because we like whales. Saving the whales to save life on Earth is biologically illiterate. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/45 "2014-01-10T19:50:47Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Hey, if the world ain’t for us, it’s for the bacteria and archaea, and they don’t care what the place looks like, because they already live in the Marianas Trench, the Yellowstone paint pots, and deep within the Earth’s crust. > > Save the whales because we like whales. Saving the whales to save life on Earth is biologically illiterate. But what if the whales (or whatever species being discussed as endangered) play a vital role in that bacteria’s role in the health and condition of this planet? Take bees, for example. You don’t think that an extinction of bees would have an adverse effect on the human population? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/46 "2014-01-10T20:03:13Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > But what if the whales (or whatever species being discussed as endangered) play a vital role in that bacteria’s role in the health and condition of this planet? Take bees, for example. You don’t think that an extinction of bees would have an adverse effect on the human population? I understand that we can’t go chasing after every single species that is nearing extinction. That is the cycle of life; species come and species go. But, just like the climate change issue, what is the cause of some of the extinctions or endangerments and, if we are causing them, what can we do to mitigate that destruction. We really don’t know (or maybe we do, I’m no expert in the matter) what the global impact is of killing off entire species of animals due to entirely man-made causes; as opposed to natural cycles of life. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/47 "2014-01-10T20:05:18Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > But what if the whales (or whatever species being discussed as endangered) play a vital role in that bacteria’s role in the health and condition of this planet? Take bees, for example. You don’t think that an extinction of bees would have an adverse effect on the human population? You’re making my case for me now. We don’t know a whole lot about how the ecological webs interact (because what a tangled web they weave, when they practice only to conceive!) so we should preserve as much as possible to ensure the planet as a whole remains nice for the lifestyles of the bipedal and sophont. This kind of ecology is still blatant humanism. Anopheles mosquitoes, on the other hand, are useless. Says so right there on the label. Mosquito species are diverse enough and numerous enough that knocking one out won’t collapse the web, and only anopheles can carry malaria, which is harmful to humans. Therefore, extincting all anopheles mosquitoes fits the bill, ecologically-speaking. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/48 "2014-01-10T20:24:04Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Do we trust the experts who have identified something that can harm you You mean the “scientists” who were given money to “find” the “evidence” that the money givers want the public to believe? Like studies to find out that yes shrimp can walk/run on treadmills? Studies funded by the shrimp mafia aka the government? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/49 "2014-01-10T20:35:51Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > You mean the “scientists” who were given money to “find” the “evidence” that the money givers want the public to believe? Science can and is reviewed even by the money people that are against the original public research, and when they come with the same result… > **[Prominent climate change denier now admits he was wrong](https://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0730/Prominent-climate-change-denier-now-admits-he-was-wrong)** > > Richard Muller, who directed a Koch-funded climate change project, has undergone a 'total turnaround' on his stance on global warming, which he now admits is caused by human activity. > [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Like studies to find out that yes shrimp can walk/run on treadmills? Studies funded by the shrimp mafia aka the government? About that, you really need to clean up your misleading sources of information: > **['Shrimp On A Treadmill' And The Politics Of 'Silly' Science Studies](https://www.npr.org/2011/08/23/139852035/shrimp-on-a-treadmill-the-politics-of-silly-studies)** > > Lawmakers and political groups like to point to government spending that they say is wasteful — especially in tough economic times. And one popular target has been scientific studies that either sound silly or involve foreign countries or have to do... > [@](#): > > Biologist Lou Burnett was in his car when his cellphone rang recently. It was a CNN reporter, asking about the fact that his research had been featured in a new report about wasteful government spending. > > That was news to Burnett, who works at the College of Charleston in South Carolina. “I was pretty irritated,” he recalls. > Shrimp On A Treadmill? > > This video, , shows part of an experiment that measured how changes in water quality affect how animals perform in their environment. This experiment is one of many singled out by Sen. Tom Coburn as evidence of questionable government spending on science. > > The report, put out by Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK), , a major government funder of research, saying it squandered taxpayer money on questionable science projects, including one pursued by Burnett and his colleagues that involved putting shrimp on a tiny treadmill. > > Lawmakers and political groups like to point to government spending that seems wasteful — especially in tough economic times. And one popular target has been scientific studies that either sound silly or involve foreign countries or have to do with sex. > > Looking at past examples, however, shows that there seems to be a pattern to how research gets singled out — and what happens after it’s put under the spotlight. > > Take the case of the “shrimp on a treadmill.” Burnett says the senator’s report linked that work to a half-million-dollar research grant. But that money actually went to a lot of different research that he and his colleagues did on this economically important seafood species. > > The treadmills were just a small part of it, a way to measure how shrimp respond to changes in water quality. Burnett says the first treadmill was built by a colleague from scraps and was basically free, and the second was fancier and cost about $1,000. The senator’s report was misleading, says Burnett, “and it suggests that much money was spent on seeing how long a shrimp can run on a treadmill, which was totally out of context.” Tell Papa Smurf to give you some hypnotherapy for that drunkenness. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/50 "2014-01-10T20:46:55Z")
Always trust doctors. [http://www.creativecriminals.com/images/tobacco-march.jpg](http://www.creativecriminals.com/images/tobacco-march.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/51 "2014-01-10T21:40:15Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Picklejar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4bbf92/32.png) [@Picklejar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Picklejar)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/52 "2014-01-10T21:54:44Z")
Did this ass-hat poke back in here yet to discuss the word salad he just excreted? Fuckin’ OP man… What was the point of all that bitching and moaning? Seriously? _ **Concision** _. OK? Look it up. If you can’t get your point across quicker than that…well shit man, no wonder you’re stuck where you are in life. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/53 "2014-01-11T00:45:47Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > . . . extincting all anopheles mosquitoes fits the bill, ecologically-speaking. And then we’ll learn that an enzyme in anopheles saliva is key to the human reproductive cycle, and we follow them down the Dodo trail in one long, sad generation. Cool Twilight Zone premise, eh? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/54 "2014-01-11T01:01:24Z")
> [@Picklejar](#): > > Did this ass-hat poke back in here yet to discuss the word salad he just excreted? Fuckin’ OP man… Fuckin’ controversy, how does it work? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/55 "2014-01-11T01:25:52Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > And then we’ll learn that an enzyme in anopheles saliva is key to the human reproductive cycle, and we follow them down the Dodo trail in one long, sad generation. > > Cool Twilight Zone premise, eh? 😉 Fucking white people, how do they work? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/56 "2014-01-11T02:15:30Z")
> [@Picklejar](#): > > What was the point of all that bitching and moaning? I may be wrong, but I think that is the point of this forum. S/he’s pissed. And venting. And ranting. I liked it. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/57 "2014-01-11T14:09:12Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Really, because that is just a monumental waste of time and distraction - assuming you mean ‘teach’ as in school. The curriculum is crammed enough already without having to inject it with bullshit. While that is categorically true, there are other ways of looking at education that make the OP a good idea. I don’t really know the state of things in the outside world, but in the US we could do with some basic education in critical thought. History facts, math, basic science, and even social studies are all at your fingertips when you need them–on the internet. I don’t remember dookie from high school, but it’s just as well because most of what I learned has either been rethought (science) or was distorted through the cold-war propaganda lens. Critical thinking, the ability to look at a situation and know what questions to ask in order to cut through a bunch of emotional pressure or deceptive marketing is far more important. Plus, when you hit the interwebs for the data they didn’t teach in school, it’s easier to identify unsupported bullshit. > [@Ludovic](#): > > Fuckin’ controversy, how does it work? ICP riff? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/58 "2014-01-11T14:29:59Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Fucking white people, how do they work? > > 😃 It works because they’re growers, not showers. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/59 "2014-01-11T14:46:31Z")
The idea of actually educating young people about past controversy, especially science based ones, is a very profound one. It would introduce skepticism, as well as giving the next generation a healthy disrespect for authority. Of course it might also make them question religion, political nonsense and the social order, so fuck it, not going to happen in mass education. Can’t have young people learning about the past, it might give them ideas. Thoughts. Hell, they might even think for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261/60 "2014-01-11T15:34:21Z")
I’m proud to have guessed AGW before opening the thread. Okay, fine, it was obvious. Allow me my small victories. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-lets-teach-the-controversy/678261.md?page=4)