# Yes means Yes, dumb idea. Women should quit lying about 'rape."
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 30, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922 "2014-09-30T01:00:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/21 "2014-09-30T03:39:29Z")
Sometimes you see a thread title and know who the OP before you click the link. Congrats, **dalej42**. You have graduated to being a ‘wow, this guy hates women’ one trick pony. A gift exchange is traditional, I believe. **blindboyard** will mail you a neckbeard if you mail him a Florida State jersey. You pick the message on the back. ‘The bitch asked for it’ is apropos but “Gold Digger” will be cheaper and it’s kind of become your catchphrase.
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#):
>
> See a therapist, **dale**. You’re fucked in the head.
Nobody should fuck him in anything.
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/22 "2014-09-30T03:53:26Z")
> [@dalej42](#):
>
> …The stupid rape shield laws need to be abolished as well. If you want to prosecute someone in court and you’re over 18 years old, you need to be named in the lawsuit as the accuser. The morning after regrets and blatant money grabs would surely drop if this was the case.
That’s not what a rape shield is. A rape shield law prevents the defence counsel from bring up irrelevant bits of the victim’s sexual history in court to try and discredit her or pain her as a slut in the jury’s mind. At least in the US there’s no law preventing media outlets from reporting the alleged victim’s name. Also in the American legal system the victim isn’t actually a party to the criminal case, nor to they get to make a decision whether to prosecute or not.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/23 "2014-09-30T04:02:50Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#):
>
> At least in the US there’s no law preventing media outlets from reporting the alleged victim’s name.
Right. Media outlets do that out of a sense of responsibility - not something I think the OP is familiar with. **dalej42** doesn’t really give a shit about anything except making sure his favorite jocks get to play football.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/24 "2014-09-30T04:15:36Z")
I take that back; it’s not just about making sure the players don’t get suspended. It’s about making sure women know these men are superior to them. They’d better not protest or refuse to give these men anything they want. You can see where this has nothing to do with **dalej42** ’s limp dicked feelings of inferiority.
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### Author:  [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/25 "2014-09-30T04:56:01Z")
nvm.
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### Author:  [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/26 "2014-09-30T05:01:52Z")
Does anyone care to explain what this law actually changes? Or is this just a beat-up-on-dalej42 thread? If the latter, carry on.
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### Author:  [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/27 "2014-09-30T05:35:48Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#):
>
> I have had sexy times with a lot of people, and I’ve never been accused of rape. I think it might be because I’m not a rapist, but who knows? How can we be sure? I mean, if only there was a way to tell if someone actually wanted to have sex with you, but how do I language??
See below.
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> Is there really any statistically nonnegligible phenomenon of people tending to “cry rape” simply because they later regret sex that they knowingly consented to?
>
> That doesn’t make sense to me. Generally, as far as I can tell from my own experience and that of anybody else I’ve ever shared such observations with, **sex that you knowingly consented to and later regretted is not sex that you want to draw other people’s attention to in any way.** Certainly not by throwing around criminal accusations.
>
> That’s not to say that people don’t occasionally make false accusations of rape. But AFAICT **the accusers in such cases generally didn’t have sex at all with the accused: they were simply out to get the accused for some reason.**
>
> Why on earth would anybody who could freely consent to sex, without being punished for having sex, decide after the fact to falsely accuse their sex partner of rape **simply because they “regretted” the sex?**
>
> And why would anybody “regret” consensual sex, anyway? Because it wasn’t very good? Because your partner was actually less appealing than you thought? Because you forgot to take precautions against pregnancy/STDs? Because one or both of you were cheating on somebody else?
>
> _Why would anybody in any of those circumstances be even slightly tempted to exacerbate the situation by portraying it as a full-blown case of criminal assault?_
>
> Until somebody provides some actual evidence about such alleged trends, I’ll remain very skeptical that there is actually any significant problem of “women lying about ‘rape’”.
Personal story. I was dating a woman in college who was in her mind a virgin as a penis had never been in her vagina. Plenty of other fun activities had gone on though. (She had a religious upbringing and had a hard time reconciling what felt good and what she was “allowed” to do.) We go out to a party and both drink quite a bit. With loosened inhibitions we came back to her dorm room. She initiated foreplay and things advanced to the point where she literally begged for sex. I mean several minutes of actual cock-grabbing, “put that thing in here” begging.
Thankfully, though I had had at least as much to drink as she did, I had the wherewithal to know she would regret it and stayed with the activities I knew she was OK with to bring her to orgasm and we passed out for the night. Next morning she lets me know in no uncertain terms that if we had had sex the night before she would have brought rape charges. Based on later relationships this woman had, I am quite certain she was telling the truth.
So, I did the right thing, but I honestly do not think most men would have the self control in that situation to do the same. I also don’t think they should be expected to. If a man and woman are both drunk and the woman initiates, or even just agrees, why is there an inherent assumption it would be the man who was the rapist if one or both of them regret it later? If neither person was legally able to give consent, how can one be charged with a crime for not getting (sober) consent?
As to why a woman might press rape charges over regretted sex, perhaps she has her self image tied up with a certain set of behaviors and cannot reconcile that with her actions. Therefore, to still be able to think of herself as the good girl she envisions, she needs to blame someone else for what happened. That seems to be what was going on with my ex.
Note I am not saying this is in any way common, just that I am certain that it does occasionally happen.
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### Author:  [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/28 "2014-09-30T06:31:11Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The new law seeks both to improve how universities handle rape and sexual assault accusations and to clarify the standards, requiring an “affirmative consent” and stating that consent can’t be given if someone is asleep or incapacitated by drugs or alcohol.
Yeah, what a draconian law, messing with my freedom to have sex with sleeping and incapacitated chicks. Fucking fascists.
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### Author:  [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/29 "2014-09-30T06:56:18Z")
> [@flight](#):
>
> Personal story. I was dating a woman in college who was in her mind a virgin as a penis had never been in her vagina. Plenty of other fun activities had gone on though. (She had a religious upbringing and had a hard time reconciling what felt good and what she was “allowed” to do.) We go out to a party and both drink quite a bit. With loosened inhibitions we came back to her dorm room. She initiated foreplay and things advanced to the point where she literally begged for sex. I mean several minutes of actual cock-grabbing, “put that thing in here” begging.
>
> Thankfully, though I had had at least as much to drink as she did, I had the wherewithal to know she would regret it and stayed with the activities I knew she was OK with to bring her to orgasm and we passed out for the night. Next morning she lets me know in no uncertain terms that if we had had sex the night before she would have brought rape charges. Based on later relationships this woman had, I am quite certain she was telling the truth.
>
> So, I did the right thing, but I honestly do not think most men would have the self control in that situation to do the same. I also don’t think they should be expected to. If a man and woman are both drunk and the woman initiates, or even just agrees, why is there an inherent assumption it would be the man who was the rapist if one or both of them regret it later? If neither person was legally able to give consent, how can one be charged with a crime for not getting (sober) consent?
Yeah, this situation just sucks. On one hand, I think these laws are, in theory, bogus. Facing rape charges because I had sex with a girl who clearly wanted it, consented, and maybe even initiated the encounter, because she was drunk? “I was drunk” doesn’t get you out of the responsibility for virtually anything else you do. Hell, even contractual obligations aren’t generally voided unless you can show that you were so drunk as to be completely incapable of understanding the nature of the contract. It really sucks for anyone who has sex with a woman who consents, then later claims she was intoxicated. I feel very little sympathy for women who made choices while drunk that they wouldn’t have made sober (not to be confused with what I’m talking about in the second paragraph), and a lot of sympathy for those who suffer due to laws like this.
That said… That group is tiny, and date rape is a very real thing. It’s like when it comes to prosecuting rape/molestation and taking the woman’s/child’s word for it - false accusations of rape/molestation are _statistically negligible_ (they happen, just so rarely that when they do, it tends to make the news); meanwhile, rape is only prosecuted in something like 4% of all cases. Yeah, these kinds of laws can lead to some very unfair cases. But the current standard is even more unfair. And as much as this type of “unfair” sex-based treatment busts my chaps, at some point you have to face reality - when the disparity between “unprosecuted rape cases” and “false allegations of rape” is this severe, this kind of law, sexist as it may be, is absolutely warranted.
(On a side note, this is why I always keep a tape recorder on my bedside for one-night stands. Not that this has been relevant for around 2 years, but just sayin’.)
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### Author:  [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/30 "2014-09-30T06:57:12Z")
I’m not sure how often accusations of false rape happens but it does happen.
Look, if a girl consents to sex while drunk, she has to own up to that. If a person is held culpable for driving while drunk, then a person should also be held culpable for sex while drunk.
And for the record: I don’t believe passed out drunk equals consent.
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### Author:  [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/31 "2014-09-30T07:05:29Z")
I agree, **even sven**. Sonsabitches, _ **what** _ is this world coming to?!? 😕
I may never have any progeny now.
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### Author:  [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/32 "2014-09-30T07:11:46Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#):
>
> Those are the ones you don’t brag about.
>
> Or get “The Brick” award.
So wait a minute… if a man has regrets, he better not bring it to the fore-front due to tarnishing his image? But if a woman does it, it’s potential rape?
I don’t know what “The Brick” award is.
BTW, I think the OP is a jerk.
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### Author:  [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/33 "2014-09-30T07:38:56Z")
> [@flight](#):
>
> As to why a woman might press rape charges over regretted sex, perhaps she has her self image tied up with a certain set of behaviors and cannot reconcile that with her actions. Therefore, to still be able to think of herself as the good girl she envisions, she needs to blame someone else for what happened. That seems to be what was going on with my ex.
>
> Note I am not saying this is in any way common, just that I am certain that it does occasionally happen.
I think what sometimes happens is that a woman might have a boyfriend and although she actually did want sex the night before when she was out at that party, the next morning in the sober light of day she has major regrets because she cheated.
I know I’ve once had a married woman I met take me to bed at an out of town conference. She didn’t share the fact that she was married and seduced me. Then the next day she felt like shit. As did I, for being part of making her feel like shit.
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### Author:  [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/34 "2014-09-30T08:27:35Z")
> [@magellan01](#):
>
> I think what sometimes happens is that a woman might have a boyfriend and although she actually did want sex the night before when she was out at that party, the next morning in the sober light of day she has major regrets because she cheated.
>
> I know I’ve once had a married woman I met take me to bed at an out of town conference. She didn’t share the fact that she was married and seduced me. Then the next day she felt like shit. As did I, for being part of making her feel like shit.
Why would you feel like shit for her? She DIDN’T TELL YOU. If you should feel like shit, it should be for her SO and not her. I was once in a similar situation, but we didn’t have sex. I threatened to tell her SO myself if she didn’t leave me alone. I DID feel like shit, but not for her. I’m NOT a cheater and I don’t want to be a part of someone else cheating on their SO.
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### Author:  [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/35 "2014-09-30T08:59:13Z")
I’d say that rather than “regrets” -
It’s errors of judgement on both parts, things that wouldn’t normally have been done that then turn into rape.
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/36 "2014-09-30T10:23:56Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#):
>
> Does anyone care to explain what this law actually changes? Or is this just a beat-up-on-dalej42 thread? If the latter, carry on.
The only thing I notice is that you being drunk is no excuse for not being able to tell that the other person was too drunk to consent.
I also note that a lack of response cannot be considered consent, but I think that was the case already.
I don’t know why everyone else is going on about drunk responsibility, when that hasn’t changed for the victim. It’s still “is she intoxicated enough that she can’t understand what’s going on?” That’s just as vague as before.
I’m also not sure why people are talking about contracts, as they would be unenforceable. The law says you must have continual consent. Any point where consent is taken way, it’s over.
The whole thing just seems to be a law that says that colleges have to now have rape policies that agree with the law, and are affirmative consent based, which just means you can’t assume consent from lack of response.
I actually am curious why people think this is a bad law.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/37 "2014-09-30T10:34:25Z")
As someone pointed out, this sort of law makes a theoretical and legal difference, but does it make a practical difference?
It’s still going to come down to one person’s word against another person’s word, isn’t it? One person will claim the other person said “yes.” The other person will claim they did not say “yes.” Isn’t the prosecution, in a certain sense, still back to Square One?
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### Author:  [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/38 "2014-09-30T10:35:24Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> I actually am curious why people think this is a bad law.
I don’t think it’s a bad law. So far as I can tell, it’s mostly the OP who does.
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### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/39 "2014-09-30T11:35:42Z")
> [@Shakes](#):
>
> Look, if a girl consents to sex while drunk, she has to own up to that. If a person is held culpable for driving while drunk, then a person should also be held culpable for sex while drunk.
It doesn’t take two people to drive a car. It does only take one person to take advantage of a bollocksed drunk other person (though sometimes more than one do…)
The text of the law states :
> [@](#):
>
> (4) A policy that, in the evaluation of complaints in the disciplinary process, it shall not be a valid excuse that the accused believed that the complainant affirmatively consented to the sexual activity if the accused knew or reasonably should have known that the complainant was unable to consent to the sexual activity under any of the following circumstances:
> (A) The complainant was asleep or unconscious.
> (B) The complainant was incapacitated due to the influence of drugs, alcohol, or medication, so that the complainant could not understand the fact, nature, or extent of the sexual activity.
> (C) The complainant was unable to communicate due to a mental or physical condition.
Note B. That’s not just “she had a few”. It’s not “made a rash, drunken decision” either. It’s “could hardly form a coherent thought”.
So I seriously don’t understand the opposition to the law. It’s pretty simple : don’t fuck dead people. Don’t fuck passed out people. Don’t fuck dead drunk people. You only get to fuck people who actually \*want \*to fuck you right back. And say so.
Dura lex, sed lex. Also how you should behave without there even needing to be a law in the first place, you fukken animals !
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-means-yes-dumb-idea-women-should-quit-lying-about-rape/699922/40 "2014-09-30T11:45:37Z")
But who will speak for the poor horny guys who like to have sex with drunk girls? What about them?!? Without inebriated girls, who are these guys supposed to penetrate?
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