# Yes, Virginia, there is a Lucifer **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 20, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065 "2009-05-20T14:04:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TGWATY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@TGWATY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TGWATY)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/1 "2009-05-20T14:04:02Z")
Today is the feast day for Saint Lucifer! > **[Lucifer of Cagliari](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Lucifer)** > > Lucifer of Cagliari (Latin: Lucifer Calaritanus, Italian: Lucifero da Cagliari; died 20 May 370 or 371) was a bishop of Cagliari in Sardinia known for his passionate opposition to Arianism. He is venerated as a Saint in Sardinia, though his status remains controversial. > Lucifer first appears in history as an envoy from Pope Liberius to the Emperor Constantius II, > requesting the convening of a church council. At the Council of Milan in 355, he defended Athanasius of Alexandria against Arian att... ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/2 "2009-05-20T14:58:58Z")
How should we celebrate? ---
**Author:** ![maladroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@maladroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maladroit)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/3 "2009-05-20T17:15:15Z")
we could play beatle records backwards and wear black clothes ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/4 "2009-05-20T17:50:42Z")
No, you mean Led Zeppelin records backwards. Beatles records played backwards just tell you that Paul is dead. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/5 "2009-05-20T18:03:03Z")
Tonight I’ll celebrate by drinking a virgin’s blood out of a goat’s horn to wash down my PB&J. ---
**Author:** ![TGWATY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@TGWATY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TGWATY)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/6 "2009-05-20T18:14:23Z")
Burn down an abortuary and sing Kumbaya. Strike a heretic on both cheeks. Get drunk with a priest. Flirt with a nun so she’ll know she’s still beautiful. Go to mass and show a LOT of enthusiasm. Interject with extra Amen!s and Hallujuah!s. Forgive anyone who has ever slighted you. In person. With a hug. Invite a Jewish coworker to lunch and then share the gospel with him. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/7 "2009-05-21T13:28:29Z")
> [@Savannah](#): > > How should we celebrate? Where’s our goat? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/8 "2009-05-21T13:53:02Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > No, you mean Led Zeppelin records backwards. Beatles records played backwards just tell you that Paul is dead. If you play Wings records backwards they tell you that Linda’s dead, which proves they’re prophetic. They also tell you that Mull of Kintyre sucks, but everyone knows that already. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/9 "2009-05-21T14:00:55Z")
Never heard of the guy. Interestingly enough, he is not mentioned here [Saint Feast Days in May - Saint Feast Days - Saints & Angels - Catholic Online](http://www.catholic.org/saints/f_day/may.php) (Catholic Online - Saints and Angels - Feast day List - May) or here [Saints A to Z: L - Saints & Angels - Catholic Online](http://www.catholic.org/saints/stindex.php?lst=L) (Catholic Online - Saints and Angels - Saints Index - L) or here [CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Index for L](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/l.htm) (New Advent - Catholic Encyclopedia, 1917 - L) Could someone have created a joke page in Wikipedia? ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/10 "2009-05-21T14:19:57Z")
Supposedly Lucifer is one of the “2 1/2” angels mentioned in the bible. No mention of sainthood that I know of. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/11 "2009-05-21T16:08:35Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > Could someone have created a joke page in Wikipedia? The discussion and history pages of the article make it look plausible that the article is real. Either that or no doubters have been up to checking the sources cited over the last two years. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/12 "2009-05-21T18:23:11Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The discussion and history pages of the article make it look plausible that the article is real. Either that or no doubters have been up to checking the sources cited over the last two years. I tried to look at the sources mentioned in Wikipedia but they mostly dead links. Did you find any valid links in the wikipedia article? Links that bring you to a page mentioning this St. Lucifer? ---
**Author:** ![TGWATY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@TGWATY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TGWATY)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/13 "2009-05-21T19:45:06Z")
From the Catholic Encyclopedia > **[CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Lucifer of Cagliari](https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09410b.htm)** > > A bishop, who must have been born in the early years of the fourth century; died in 371 Definitely a real person, but no indication in the article that he is a saint. Of course, that sort of thing is somewhat ill defined for saints from the early days. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/14 "2009-05-21T20:57:41Z")
I’m going to go knock up Mia Farrow. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/15 "2009-05-21T22:08:53Z")
> [@TGWATY](#): > > From the Catholic Encyclopedia > > [CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Lucifer of Cagliari](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09410b.htm) > > Definitely a real person, but no indication in the article that he is a saint. Of course, that sort of thing is somewhat ill defined for saints from the early days. Well there you have it. I wonder why his name wasn’t in the index that I posted a link to earlier. It sounds like this Lucifer guy might have been a royal PITA if you didn’t agree with him. Not the kind of guy that someone would make a saint? I wonder where the “legend” of him being a saint comes from. I found another page that mentions his sainthood > **[eresie.it - This website is for sale! - eresie Resources and Information.](http://www.eresie.it/it/id669.htm)** > > This website is for sale! eresie.it is your first and best source for information about eresie. Here you will also find topics relating to issues of general interest. We hope you find what you are looking for! “_L. fu in seguito canonizzato ed è celebrato il 20 maggio._” and there is a Saint Lucifer church in Cagliari (Sardinia, Italy) but it seems odd to me that he is not in any lists of saints I could find. I will have to reasearch this some more. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/16 "2009-05-21T22:09:21Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > I tried to look at the sources mentioned in Wikipedia but they mostly dead links. Did you find any valid links in the wikipedia article? Links that bring you to a page mentioning this St. Lucifer? I see three references listed and none of them is a link, so…em, whatchoo talking bout? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/17 "2009-05-21T22:15:51Z")
This Wikipedia page ( [Lucifero di Cagliari - Wikipedia](http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Lucifero#La_questione_della_santit.C3.A0_di_Lucifero) ) says that the sainthood of Lucifer of Cagliari was very disputed after his death, and that “_Urbano VIII, con il decreto del 20 giugno 1641, avrebbe ordinato a tutti di astenersi dal trattare in pubblico la questione della santità di Lucifero e dal condannare o difendere il suo culto fino a nuova decisione della Santa Sede._” translation: Urban VIII, with his decree of 20 June 12641, had ordered everyone to abstain from discussing in public the question of the sainthood of Lucifer and from condemning or defending his beliefs, until a new decision from the Holy See". But it doesn’t say anything about any new decision. I’m still confused! ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/18 "2009-05-21T22:18:19Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I see three references listed and none of them is a link, so…em, whatchoo talking bout? I meant the first External Link from the english-language Wikipedia article at [Lucifer of Cagliari - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Lucifer) and some other links which I thought I saw at Wikipedia but now I’m losing track of where I saw what. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/19 "2009-05-22T01:10:27Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > If you play Wings records backwards they tell you that Linda’s dead, which proves they’re prophetic. They also tell you that Mull of Kintyre sucks, but everyone knows that already. I heard it was a wicked good recipe for lentil soup. ---
**Author:** ![TGWATY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@TGWATY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TGWATY)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065/20 "2009-05-22T04:40:39Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > and there is a Saint Lucifer church in Cagliari (Sardinia, Italy) but it seems odd to me that he is not in any lists of saints I could find. I will have to reasearch this some more. There are church rules nowadays about who can be allowed to be publicly venerated, and they depend on Vatican approval, but likely there was more local freedom in that regard in the early days. And the Cagliari parish got grandfathered in. btw, it is allowed to privately venerate _anyone_ deceased. The rules just apply to church sanctioned public devotion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-virginia-there-is-a-lucifer/497065.md?page=2)