# Yes, we do have free speech in the U.K.! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396 "2006-12-24T00:10:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/1 "2006-12-24T00:10:00Z")
Bloody hell! [Couple detained by police vindicated.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/6205897.stm) Now, I don’t agree with their views about homosexuality, but I do agree with their right to express their views. To the nincompoops at Wyre Borough Council, have you nothing better to do? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/2 "2006-12-24T00:11:08Z")
Bollocks! That title should be ‘questioned’, not ‘detained’. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/3 "2006-12-24T00:15:24Z")
Good grief. That’s utterly bizarre behaviour on the part of the council _and_ the police. Is anti-gay rights stuff illegal there, or something? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/4 "2006-12-24T00:24:31Z")
[This article](http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/12/122306ukhate.htm) refers to what the couple said as “gay hate speech.” > [@](#): > > After the Wyre Borough Council launched a diversity program to train its staff about LGBT issues and started a Lancashire wide scheme to promote gay friendly businesses and organizations Joe and Helen Roberts sent a letter to the council calling homosexuality “immoral”. > > “If gay people made the decision not to think gay, they would not act gay,” the letter said. “Whatever they are giving their attention to will eventually mould them into its image.” > > Council officials turned the letter over to police who began a probe to determine if it violated British hate laws. I don’t agree with their views either, but – at what point does it change from freedom of speech, expressing what they believe in accordance with their faith, to “hate speech”? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/5 "2006-12-24T00:39:04Z")
I’m sure [Denis Lemon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitehouse_v._Lemon) will be glad to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/6 "2006-12-24T00:44:33Z")
Hmmm… > [@BBC](#): > > The couple had asked for Christian literature to be displayed alongside gay rights’ literature Better rethink that, Auntie, otherwise it’ll look like a Daily Mail article. Doesn’t look like the council did much wrong. The police, however, fucked up, and have paid out accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/7 "2006-12-24T01:00:02Z")
According to the BBC: “The couple had asked for Christian literature to be displayed alongside gay rights’ literature” Displayed where? Town Hall? The local fish and chips stand? Every home in the district? Quoting a related BBC story: “Mr Roberts added: “Morality is the foundation of democracy and when you do away with morality, your democracy goes down the Suwannee and you end up with immorality and then anarchy.”” What does Stephen Foster have to do with this? Or are metaphors using British waterways not forceful enough?? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/8 "2006-12-24T01:13:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Mr Roberts added: “Morality is the foundation of democracy and when you do away with morality, your democracy goes down the Suwannee and you end up with immorality and then anarchy.” So if you do away with morality, immorality ensues? Who’d have thought? It’s just those other stages which raise a few minor queries. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/9 "2006-12-24T01:50:52Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Better rethink that, Auntie, otherwise it’ll look like a Daily Mail article. [/quote] Uh? What’s wrong with that formulation (honest question)? The BBC article does slightly imply that their “right” to have the council publish shitty “Christian” hate speech was upheld, which it wasn’t, but I don’t see what’s wrong with the sentence you quoted. > [@](#): > > Doesn’t look like the council did much wrong. The police, however, fucked up, and have paid out accordingly. Well, the police were sent round at the behest of the council, and while of course it’s their responsibility not to respond to crackpot “warnings”, if the council phones up and asks the cops to put the scare on somebody, then even if the police have no obligation to obey, I want the council censured for that. If your council calls the cops on you for expressing your viewpoint, no matter how dickheaded it may be, then something is seriously wrong before you even consider the police’s response. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/10 "2006-12-24T03:02:51Z")
I wonder if Joe Roberts knows he’s married to Ian McKellen. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/11 "2006-12-24T07:55:33Z")
[QUOTE=Dead Badger] Uh? What’s wrong with that formulation (honest question)? [/QUOTE] The BBC’s wording implies that Christian literature and gay rights literature are mutually-incompatible. ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/12 "2006-12-24T08:33:53Z")
Free speech, my ass. This was about the money, _for their cause_, plain and simple. > [@](#): > > “This was never about money. It was about principles.” > > **Mr and Mrs Roberts are to donate the £10,000 settlement to the Christian Institute, which supported them during their fight.** ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/13 "2006-12-24T08:39:57Z")
Um… but their cause is free speech, right? ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/14 "2006-12-24T08:45:35Z")
Their cause to me seems to be making money for their pet group, “The Christian Institute”. They were (at least) perceived to be slighted. They took this oppurtunity to make some money for their agenda. 10,000 pounds worth… ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/15 "2006-12-24T08:52:48Z")
But everybody active in causes makes money for their “agenda”. Gays. Christians. Everybody. They use the money to do things like publish and distribute what they want to say. ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/16 "2006-12-24T08:56:51Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] But everybody active in causes makes money for their “agenda”. Gays. Christians. Everybody. They use the money to do things like publish and distribute what they want to say. [/QUOTE] This makes it right? Usually they rely on like-minded donors for funds. In this case they saw a legal chink in the armor and took advantage of it. They can talk all the flowery free speech they want, this was nothing more than a convenient (and publicity-minded) money grab. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/17 "2006-12-24T09:48:34Z")
[QUOTE=if6was9] this was nothing more than a convenient (and publicity-minded) money grab. [/QUOTE] Umm… how would you like it if someone at your local Town Hall disagreed with a view you’d expressed and sent the police round to ‘discuss’ it with you? ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/18 "2006-12-24T09:56:19Z")
[QUOTE=if6was9] This makes it right? Usually they rely on like-minded donors for funds. In this case they saw a legal chink in the armor and took advantage of it. They can talk all the flowery free speech they want, this was nothing more than a convenient (and publicity-minded) money grab. [/QUOTE] You’re saying they predicted that their actions would lead to a council knee-jerk twitch reaction, and that the local cops would pop round to their house to do a little “Are you two hate speakers?” questioning? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/19 "2006-12-24T10:32:35Z")
[QUOTE=Ice Wolf] You’re saying they predicted that their actions would lead to a council knee-jerk twitch reaction, and that the local cops would pop round to their house to do a little “Are you two hate speakers?” questioning? 😕 [/QUOTE] No. I’m saying they found themselves in a position that they could take advantage of, and did. I’m saying that their backers, a group they were involved with, no matter how heavily… saw a chance to make some money. Nothing more, nothing less. Had nothing to do with any grand ideals like free speech. ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396/20 "2006-12-24T10:42:15Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Umm… how would you like it if someone at your local Town Hall disagreed with a view you’d expressed and sent the police round to ‘discuss’ it with you? [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t like it at all! But I wouldn’t sue the m-er f-ers and then donate the money to the fucking Christian Institute. Seriously, I doubt the couple were very much involved at all. I’m thinking this christian group goaded them into sueing, for the price of the settlement. “We all must do our part.” :rolleyes: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-we-do-have-free-speech-in-the-u-k/385396.md?page=2)