# Yet another anti-gay Pastor outed **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 22, 2010, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629 "2010-09-22T11:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/41 "2010-09-23T01:54:15Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I’d make one adjustment to **Ender** ’s post: > > > [@Enderw24](#): > > > > So you assume that 1) gays are evil and 2) you are straight and therefore not evil and 3) that EVERYONE has thoughts of gay sex because it’s a temptation and a test from God to see just how evil you really are. > > It’s not “you are straight and therefore not evil,” it’s “you are not evil and therefore straight,” at least in their minds. “I can’t be gay, homosexuals are against God, and I love God!” Furthermore, in their eyes, screwing fellows and then inveighing against homosexuality isn’t hypocrisy: it’s succumbing to temptation – as all humans do because we’re all sinners – and then making up for that failing by penance and righteousness. That’s how you’re _supposed_ to behave when you sin. To them, whether consciously or unconsciously, “gays” aren’t people who want to have homosexual sex; ‘gays’ are the ones who’ve ‘fallen’ and decided _there’s nothing wrong_ with homosexual sex. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/42 "2010-09-23T03:37:25Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > The reason why is that lots of straight people don’t think about gay people. We just don’t. In our day to day lives, in our day to day thoughts, we’re not consumed by images of ball-on-ball action. We’re not constantly overwhelmed by fantasies of buff young guys and wondering what their massive shlongs shoved down our small but willing throat would feel like. It’s not even a question of “what goes on in the bedroom is your business.” It’s truly just that many (most?) straight people simply put gay activities out of our mind because gay thoughts never enter them in the first place. I didn’t think about it until now, damn you! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/43 "2010-09-24T00:41:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is a proven correlation between expressed homophobia and sexual arousal from seeing gay porn. The bigger the homophobe, the bigger the the closet case. Fred Phelps might as well be wearing a dress. > > I’ve had more than one gay friend tell me that the guys who talk the most shit about "faggots’ are always the ones who come back on the down low and hit on them when nobody’s looking. Honestly, I don’t think it takes any great insight to to be able to tell that anyone who is obsessed with gay sex is obsessed with it for the obvious reason. We were just talking about these studies in another thread and you said they don’t say anything about sexual orientation. But now you are saying they do. Hrm. So I guess I’ll repeat what I said in that thread. I don’t think these studies necessarilÝ show that “homophobes” are more likely to be gay themselves because of a confounding variable–the degree to which a person is turned on by seeing naughty things. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/44 "2010-09-24T00:55:01Z")
Regarding some posters’ questions on what’s the illegality, as far as I can tell he is not being criminally charged of any form of sexual assault on a minor, he’s being subjected to\* civil lawsuits\* by people who feel he harmed them. Depending on the jurisdiction, there may be cases in which certain facts may make a sexual conduct “wrongful” for the purpose of civil liability, based upon one of the parties being in a position of power, authority or trust over the other, even if the person was above the AOC but still a legal minor for most other purposes. > [@matt\_mcl](#): > > To them, whether consciously or unconsciously, “gays” aren’t people who want to have homosexual sex; ‘gays’ are the ones who’ve ‘fallen’ and decided _there’s nothing wrong_ with homosexual sex. Right. In that worldview, homosexual sex is but one of the various specific forms of the general temptation/sin of Perverted Sex. Then everyone, I mean \*everyone \*is tempted by Perverted Sex, and sometimes you’re specially vulnerable to one form and the answer is to fight it even more fiercely (even if suffering repeated “relapses”). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/45 "2010-09-24T01:21:33Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > > [@Bosstone](#): > > > > I’d make one adjustment to **Ender** ’s post:It’s not “you are straight and therefore not evil,” it’s “you are not evil and therefore straight,” at least in their minds. “I can’t be gay, homosexuals are against God, and I love God!” > > Furthermore, in their eyes, screwing fellows and then inveighing against homosexuality isn’t hypocrisy: it’s succumbing to temptation – as all humans do because we’re all sinners – and then making up for that failing by penance and righteousness. That’s how you’re _supposed_ to behave when you sin. > > To them, whether consciously or unconsciously, “gays” aren’t people who want to have homosexual sex; ‘gays’ are the ones who’ve ‘fallen’ and decided _there’s nothing wrong_ with homosexual sex. And that’s precisely why homosexuality is viewed (by them) as a choice. Because they are actively choosing not to be gay. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/46 "2010-09-24T02:17:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is a proven correlation between expressed homophobia and sexual arousal from seeing gay porn. The bigger the homophobe, the bigger the closet case. I don’t know of the study you cite but it seems it might be the other way around. The more sexual arousal from seeing gay porn, the more expressed homophobia? Because there are some very straight people who just hate gays. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/47 "2010-09-24T02:23:14Z")
As far as I am concerned, homosexuality is not a choice, it is not a sin and it is not anyone’s business unless invited. But I’ll posit, and no doubt be less popular for it, that it is not necessarily dishonest to condemn as a sin an act to which which one has been personally tempted, or even committed. It _is_ dishonest to commit such an act, or be tempted, and then deny it, but even dishonorable actions and motives can be disavowed without quite reaching a state of hypocrisy. A thief might acknowledge stealing is wrong and deny stealing and be convicted of larceny but not hypocrisy. It strikes me that, if the bishop is guilty, that he is blameworthy for his actions but also is a victim of the same anti-gay bigotry condemned by those busy condemning _him_. The difference between Eddie Long, and the marchers and the martyrs of gay America, is that he lost his struggle against bigotry, probably long ago when he was too young to defend himself against forces much too close and much too strong. I’d like to suggest that it’s possible that this convenient target suits the bigots just fine, because it keeps the opprobrium focused on the sinfulness of a particular kind of sex, and not the sinfulness of society’s disowning an innocent subset of itself. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/48 "2010-09-24T02:23:29Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > There is a proven correlation between expressed homophobia and sexual arousal from seeing gay porn. The bigger the homophobe, the bigger the the closet case. Fred Phelps might as well be wearing a dress. > > > > I’ve had more than one gay friend tell me that the guys who talk the most shit about "faggots’ are always the ones who come back on the down low and hit on them when nobody’s looking. Honestly, I don’t think it takes any great insight to to be able to tell that anyone who is obsessed with gay sex is obsessed with it for the obvious reason. > > We were just talking about these studies in another thread and you said they don’t say anything about sexual orientation. I didn’t say that. I said the people who did the studies didn’t draw any conclusions. I personally DO draw that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/49 "2010-09-24T02:25:23Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > There is a proven correlation between expressed homophobia and sexual arousal from seeing gay porn. The bigger the homophobe, the bigger the closet case. > > I don’t know of the study you cite but it seems it might be the other way around. The more sexual arousal from seeing gay porn, the more expressed homophobia? Because there are some very straight people who just hate gays. The guys who say they hate gays get boners from seeing gay porn. I’m not sure I understand your distinction here. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/50 "2010-09-24T03:26:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > We were just talking about these studies in another thread and you said they don’t say anything about sexual orientation. > > I didn’t say that. I said the people who did the studies didn’t draw any conclusions. I personally DO draw that conclusion. Ah. Ok then. Well, I think that’s a stupid conclusion to draw unless you have some evidence to explain the confounding variable, but suit yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/51 "2010-09-24T04:18:14Z")
I think your “confounding variable” is completely _ad hoc_, unproven and frankly, kind of silly. They’re turned on by stuff that’s “naughty?” What is the sceintific definition of “naughty?” It’s also a distinction without a difference. If they are turned on by naked dudes, then, by definition, that is a homosexual attraction since orientation is defined by attraction. If they’re attracted to schlong, they’re attracted to schlong. I’m really not sure I’m able to parse any meaningful distinction between being attracted to it because they’re attarcted to it or atracted to it because it’s “naughty.” Either way, they’re attracted to it. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/52 "2010-09-24T07:09:00Z")
> [@](#): > > diogenes the cynic > > > [@](#): > > > > rand rover > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > diogenes the cynic > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > rand rover > > > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > > > diogenes the cynic > > > > > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > rand rover > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diogenes the cynic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rand rover > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diogenes the cynic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rand rover > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diogenes the cynic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rand rover … keep it up, my new zero emission motor is almost cranking over on it’s own. What? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/53 "2010-09-24T12:19:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think your “confounding variable” is completely _ad hoc_, unproven and frankly, kind of silly. They’re turned on by stuff that’s “naughty?” What is the sceintific definition of “naughty?” > > It’s also a distinction without a difference. If they are turned on by naked dudes, then, by definition, that is a homosexual attraction since orientation is defined by attraction. If they’re attracted to schlong, they’re attracted to schlong. I’m really not sure I’m able to parse any meaningful distinction between being attracted to it because they’re attarcted to it or atracted to it because it’s “naughty.” Either way, they’re attracted to it. Does “turned on by” a picture of a particular activity necessarily equate to “attracted to” the type of person in the picture? Is it possible to be aroused by something that one doesn’t wish to engage in? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/54 "2010-09-24T14:00:35Z")
Dio, I’m not daying there’s an objective way to define “naughty.” I would bet that homophobes find gay sex to be naughty more often than do non-homophobes, because the belief that gay sex is a bad thing to do is part of the definition of homophobe. So, when a homophobe’s dick gets hard when watching gay porn, it could be because that particular homophobe gets turned on by watching naughty things, not that they get turned on by watching guys have sex or seeing naked men. So, you can’t reallý say that the fact that the homophobe’s dick got hard when watching gay sex means he is gay. He could just be getting turned on by watching somethging that he feels is the wrong thing to do. One way to eliminate this confounding variable would be to find out what else the homophobe thinks is naughty and see what his dick does when he watches that. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/55 "2010-09-24T14:15:18Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > One way to eliminate this confounding variable would be to find out what else the homophobe thinks is naughty and see what his dick does when he watches that. I, for one, can hardly wait to find out what a homophobe’s dick does when he sees other naughty things. Where can I sign up to fund the study? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/56 "2010-09-24T15:03:00Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > One way to eliminate this confounding variable would be to find out what else the homophobe thinks is naughty and see what his dick does when he watches that. Be sure to let us know if your results are any different. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/57 "2010-09-24T15:52:37Z")
There’s also the possibility that the homophobe who’s dick twitches while watching gay porn really has a “shit tied to my junk” fetish. Anyone consider that? Hmmmm? ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/58 "2010-09-24T20:10:39Z")
‘LongFellows Youth Academy,’ you’ve got to be shitting me. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/59 "2010-09-24T20:16:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The guys who say they hate gays get boners from seeing gay porn. I’m not sure I understand your distinction here. How were the test sample chosen? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629/60 "2010-09-24T20:19:56Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > ‘LongFellows Youth Academy,’ you’ve got to be shitting me. In a [comment](http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/22/Bishop.long.sex.lawsuit/index.html?iref=allsearch) about paddling wayward teenage boys brought to him by their mothers, Long boasted “When I say bend over, even on Sunday, they bend over …” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-anti-gay-pastor-outed/554629.md?page=4)