# Yet another comics question (I know, I'm annoying.) Cameos in The Nail **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 27, 2004, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410 "2004-10-27T09:03:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/1 "2004-10-27T09:03:37Z")
I missed The Nail the first time around, and only recently picked it up after reading Another Nail. On top of being an entertaining read, it’s fun to play Spot The Cameo. (Also fun to play with Identity Crisis.) I’ve identified all but a handful of the ones who appear to be extant characters. First, in Perry’s narration about the history of metahumans: I have no CLUE who the woman next to Starman is (and is that the 40s Robotman behind her?). The ape (or apelike being) fighting Ragman also doesn’t strike a bell. Jumping ahead, when Lois is touring the ‘Alien’ Research Center in Smallville, who’s the skull-masked woman in the panel with Firestorm and Black Orchid? And, finally, just before WW’s taken down, the characters she’s talking to (Matt and Abigail Cable and Dr Alec Holland) appear to be characters that should be familiar. They aren’t familiar. (Also…what the heck is Ultra doing there? Isn’t he supposed to be from the future?) ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/2 "2004-10-27T11:52:14Z")
The skull-masked female villian in the glass tube is **Banshee** , a John Byrne creation from his Superman days. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/3 "2004-10-27T12:20:55Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > And, finally, just before WW’s taken down, the characters she’s talking to (Matt and Abigail Cable and Dr Alec Holland) appear to be characters that should be familiar. They aren’t familiar. > > (Also…what the heck is Ultra doing there? Isn’t he supposed to be from the future?) I’m not sure who the Cables are, but Alec Holland became Swamp Thing. For his chat with WW, it appears that Diana was able to prevent the incident that transformed him in this universe. So Superman’s absence isn’t all bad, I guess. Ultra is from the future. He must’ve been nabbed after travelling back for a visit. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/4 "2004-10-27T12:54:16Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > Alec Holland became Swamp Thing. For his chat with WW, it appears that Diana was able to prevent the incident that transformed him in this universe. So Superman’s absence isn’t all bad, I guess. Well… [Spoiler]Except for the part where he ended up murdered by Jimmy Olsen to frame WW for the assassination of the President (And Holland, and the Cables, and everyone else in the White House…). BTW…JIMMY FUCKING OLSEN! A choice of villain so demented it was totally brilliant.[/spoiler] Thanks you two. Still to be identified are the woman in the revealing costume and silly mask/goggles/whatever next to Starman, the ape getting his hairy ass kicked by Ragman and the Cables. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/5 "2004-10-27T22:08:28Z")
Thanks, Dex. I don’t know why I can’t do spoiler boxes right. \>\_\< ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/6 "2004-10-28T02:46:01Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > I missed The Nail the first time around, and only recently picked it up after reading Another Nail. > > On top of being an entertaining read, it’s fun to play Spot The Cameo. (Also fun to play with Identity Crisis.) > > I’ve identified all but a handful of the ones who appear to be extant characters. > > First, in Perry’s narration about the history of metahumans: > > I have no CLUE who the woman next to Starman is (and is that the 40s Robotman behind her?). Phantom Lady–who had the biggest knockers in the history of comics. And yes that was the Earth-Two (Golden-Age) Robotman. And on Earth-Two he was related to the Earth-Two Robin by dint of having the same last name. You can tell it’s the '40s Robotman because he has a sort of upside-down collar sticking out of the back of his skull–sort of like a baseball cap turned backwards grafted on. > [@](#): > > The ape (or apelike being) fighting Ragman also doesn’t strike a bell. He’s a Black-Lighting bad-guy…Orca maybe? Toabias Whale? Some fish-related name. He’s sort of a Kingpin type. > [@](#): > > Jumping ahead, when Lois is touring the ‘Alien’ Research Center in Smallville, who’s the skull-masked woman in the panel with Firestorm and Black Orchid? Silver Banshee—Post-Crisis Superman villianess. Undead sort. > [@](#): > > And, finally, just before WW’s taken down, the characters she’s talking to (Matt and Abigail Cable and Dr Alec Holland) appear to be characters that should be familiar. They aren’t familiar. Dr. Holland _IS_ Swamp Thing. Matt Cable was a government agent who hunted Swamp Thing because he wrongly believed that Swampy _killed_ Alec Holland. Abligail Arcane was the daughter of Swampy uber-villian Anton Arcane. Eventually Swampy cleared things up with Matt, Abby married Matt and they would almost live happily ever after until Alan Moore showed up, had Matt be possessed by the ghost of Arcane and die (eventually–and once he died, he became Sandman’s raven “Matt”) and Swampy and Abigail got hitched…until Nancy Collins came along fucked things up by making (IIRC) Abigail a man (and plant-elemental) hater. > [@](#): > > (Also…what the heck is Ultra doing there? Isn’t he supposed to be from the future?) I don’t think so–I think he was just from outer space. But don’t quote me on that. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/7 "2004-10-28T03:19:39Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > He’s a Black-Lighting bad-guy…Orca maybe? Toabias Whale? Some fish-related name. He’s sort of a Kingpin type. Hmm…doesn’t match the one image of Whale I’ve been able to find (and after finding that, I realised I’d seen him in Batman and the Outsiders). Whale looks…well…like a whale. And he SO would not be in that outfit. This guy is definitely either an ape, or a person deformed in a way that makes him look apelike. Hairy shoulders, all muscle, flatish looking face (although makes it pose is hard to tell that - Ragman’s just given him a boot to the chin), arms may or may not be disproportionately long (again, pose makes it difficult to tell), prominent canines. He does appear to be albino, though. (Ultra-Humanite has been thought of and rejected…can’t find a picture of him in anything resembling what this guy’s wearing, and the head doesn’t appear to be oversized.) When the other computer clears, I’ll try to get a scan of the panel in question. (And I took the bit at the back of Robotman’s head as an aproximation of hair. (He looks WEIRD bald…)) ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/8 "2004-10-28T03:28:18Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > although makes it pose is hard to tell that The hell did that come from…? ‘Although the pose makes it hard to tell that’. ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/9 "2004-10-28T03:42:54Z")
Could the ape possibly be Solivar (king of Gorilla City where Gorilla Grodd comes from), he was a silver ape. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/10 "2004-10-28T05:36:37Z")
Doesn’t look like Solivar - at least no version I remember. And why would Solivar be duking it out with Ragman? Anyway…I got the scan done… [This is the guy](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/Nekogami/apeman1.png). ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/11 "2004-10-28T11:29:40Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Hmm…doesn’t match the one image of Whale I’ve been able to find (and after finding that, I realised I’d seen him in Batman and the Outsiders). Whale looks…well…like a whale. And he SO would not be in that outfit. :: Snerk :: 😛 Good point, although in fairness, Davis was having fun screwing around with people’s outfits. I’d missed the hairy shoulders part which completely rules out Whale anyway. I checked out one of [Jess Nevin’s](http://www.enjolrasworld.com/Jess%20Nevins/The%20Nail/nail1.htm) (the GAWD of comics annotaters) annotations and per Alan Davis > [@](#): > > “Ragman is fighting the Apokoliptian storm trooper, Darkseid’s agent, who was stranded on Earth in the Cosmic Odyssey. Neither character is Silver Age, and this encounter never took place in _real_ continuity. (The Apokoliptian was stranded primarily due to Superman and subsequent encounters involved the Batman)” Cosmic Odyssey? Talk about obscure! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/12 "2004-10-28T11:57:57Z")
[QUOTE=Fenris Cosmic Odyssey? Talk about obscure! :D[/QUOTE] How can that title be obscure? I own all four issues… ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/13 "2004-10-28T12:06:47Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Doesn’t look like Solivar - at least no version I remember. And why would Solivar be duking it out with Ragman? > > Anyway…I got the scan done… > > [This is the guy](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/Nekogami/apeman1.png). The Ultra-Humanite. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/14 "2004-10-28T22:27:29Z")
Thanks, Fenris. And now that you mention that, his outfit does have a certain Apokoliptian look to it. Although, Davis’s reference to Ragman not being Silver Age confuses me a little. The first version of Ragman was introduced in 1976, which is well within the Silver Age as I’ve always understood it (Ending about 1984). I wonder if he’s not familiar with the original Ragman (a possibility, given the afterward of the TPB), or if he’s working on a different definition of the Silver Age than me. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/15 "2004-10-29T00:51:36Z")
Not to presume to answer for Fenris, but the Silver Age seems to have ended a good decade or so before the Crisis. I think a generally accepted timepoint would be around when the runaway chain reaction converted all kryptonite in Earth’s vicinity into iron (and also created the sand-Superman which absorbed a large percentage of Superman’s powers), which was within months of when Robin went to college and Batman moved out of Wayne Manor and started wearing those ears that were about three feet long (and stopped fighting space aliens). Everything from then to the Crisis is pretty much the Bronze Age. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/16 "2004-10-29T03:06:29Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Although, Davis’s reference to Ragman not being Silver Age confuses me a little. The first version of Ragman was introduced in 1976, which is well within the Silver Age as I’ve always understood it (Ending about 1984). That’s not my understanding of the Silver Age. The Silver Age started somewhere in the mid-'50s. I’ve seen it as Showcase #4 (first SA Flash), or earlier at Detective #225 (1st Martian Manhunter) or even whatever Captain Comet’s first appearance was–I think this last one is silly, mind you) but it ended with Marvel around the time of the death of Gwen Stacy (circa 1972) which would also be about the same time they got that huge new influx of talent: Starlin, Engelhart, Brunner, Windsor-Smith, Ploog, Gerber, Golden, etc. (Steranko and Adams came just before that wave) For DC it ended a bit earlier…maybe when Infantino left Flash, Weisinger left Superman, and the new era began when Adams and O’Neill re-revamped Batman, there was the “Kryptonite Nevermore!” stuff in Superman, the Kirby 4th world stuff, Ragman, all post Silver, IMO. The stuff from the mid-'70s to the mid-'90s is usually referred to as the Bronze Age. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/17 "2004-10-29T03:11:56Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > , which was within months of when Robin went to college and Batman moved out of Wayne Manor and started wearing those ears that were about three feet long (and stopped fighting space aliens). Quibble—there was a good decade and at least three distinct periods between the space-aliens Batman and the Adams/O’Neill Batman. The 'Batman of Outer Space" was mid-late '50s stuff. That was followed by the "Let’s imititate Mort Weisinger and give Batman a “Batman Family” (Batgirl, Batwoman, Bathound, Bat-mite) stuff, which was ditched for the (wonderful, incredible) Fox/Broome/Infantino “New Look” Batman (which focused mostly on his leet detective skillz) which morphed into the “The TV show is hot! Make him funny and stupid!” stuff. After the TV show went the way of all fads, the book limped along for a (short) while when Adams and O’Neill gave Bats the 3-foot ears. Except for that, I agree! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/18 "2004-10-29T04:17:08Z")
Granted, the range of the Silver Age seems to vary from commentary to commentary\*, and mine seems to be one of the broader ones, but the definition Davis seems to be using, based on his only exclusing Ragman and the Apokoliptian guy, would definitely include Ragman - whose first series ran from Sept 1976- Jan 1977. The inclusion of the Outsiders, particularly, expands it into aproximately the same range I’m used to. Black Lightning was introduced in April '77, Katana and Geo-Force in 1983 (either BatO #1 or Brave and the Bold #200). Shade, Metamorpho and Black Canary fit comfortably into the Silver Age, though. - I’ve found cites for start dates ranging from 1937-1956 and end dates ranging from 1970-1983 (excluding the Green Arrow fansite that had 1963-1968, since that was used to refer to a particular era of GA’s characterization). (FTR, The first I ever encountered, and still think in terms of is 1956 (Presumably using Barry Allen’s first appearance as the benchmark)-1984, which was given on a set of DCU trading cards in the early 90s.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-comics-question-i-know-im-annoying-cameos-in-the-nail/271410/19 "2004-10-29T07:38:01Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > And yes that was the Earth-Two (Golden-Age) Robotman. And on Earth-Two he was related to the Earth-Two Robin by dint of having the same last name. Actually, Robotman’s original identity was Robert Crane (no relation to Hogan) and his _assistant_ (the one who transplanted Crane’s brain into the robotic body after Crane had been fatally wounded by mobsters) was named Chuck Grayson. An issue of the 1980’s series _All-Star Squadron_ established he was a cousin to young Richard.