# Yet another military myth, aka bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 9, 2001, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318 "2001-11-09T00:29:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/1 "2001-11-09T00:29:19Z")
Last night, a young member of the US Army Reserves informed me that “the good thing about being in the US Army is that when you go overseas, wherever you are is legally a piece of the United States and you can’t be punished by the local country.” I was actually polite to her and did not say, “BULLSHIT!” I politely asked her where she got that information. Her response was: “I can’t remember.” Well, young Private, here’s a newsflash for you: YOU MADE THAT SHIT UP OR REPEATED SOMETHING SOMEONE ELSE MADE UP! Perhaps that’s why you couldn’t remember the source? I’m sure some of the Service Members currently serving time in jail in Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, the United Kingdom, etc., wished your assertion were true, but, alas and thank God, it’s not true. It’s what’s politely referred to as bullshit. Plus, the actual facts of the matter were explained to you when you were in Basic by someone who actually knew what the fuck they were talking about. I certainly hope you listen better in the future, especially since you told me this bullshit during a orientation session at college! P.S. I did explain to her the facts of the matter and where she could find out the correct information. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/2 "2001-11-09T00:49:30Z")
Under the Status of Forces Agreements with many countries in which US forces are based, servicemen who commit crimes are dealt with by the US authorities, though the US can leave them for local courts to deal with if they want. That’s what this person was thinking about. I’m not sure why they think is is a good thing for the servicemen - they would often get less severe treatment if this weren’t the case. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/3 "2001-11-09T00:59:37Z")
No, Hemlock. The subject individual was talking about complete extra-territoriality. The Status of Forces Agreement do not automatically grant primary jurisdiction over Service Members to the US military forces. There are certain considerations involved: (a) Was the crime committed on base or off base, (b) was the crime against a fellow Service Member or a citizen of the host country, © does the UCMJ address the crime committed, (d) and who gets to hold the accused until trial (local authorities or the US military)? These are just some of the considerations involved. Oh, another consideration is: Is the Service Member accused stationed in the country concerned or is (s)he passing through on Leave? ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/4 "2001-11-09T02:23:42Z")
I’m relying on a fading recollection of the NATO SOFA. An offense by a US service member punishable under the UCMJ against another US service member is exclusively within the jurisdiction of the US. This is exclusive jurisdiction-US. An offense by a US service member against a local national that violates both local law and the UCMJ belongs to the Host Country unless the Host Country declines jurisdiction, I that case the US has jurisdiction. This is concurrent jurisdiction. An offense by a US service member against a local national that is a violation of local law but not a violation of the UCMJ belongs to the Host Country. This is exclusive jurisdiction-Host. As a practical matter in West Germany in the late 1960s, these situations were worked out by the local state prosecutor and the SJA office at the local Army/Air Force/Naval base. If it was a petty offense or if there was a prospect of a defense or a complicated trial, the local authorities were happy to turn the thing over to the US – but not always. On the bright side, spending time in a German prison is a great way to learn idiomatic German. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/5 "2001-11-09T03:37:02Z")
Possibly the misinformed Private is confusing the Status of Forces Agreements with the fact that _embassies_ are regarded as sovereign territory of the nations they represent. The same is true for warships. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/6 "2001-11-09T04:01:33Z")
> [@](#): > > spending time in a German prison is a great way to learn idiomatic German. _Extremely_ idiomatic. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/7 "2001-11-09T05:16:23Z")
Student = Idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/8 "2001-11-09T05:25:40Z")
While in the Army in Germany, I worked next door to Courts and Boards (the legal office at brigade headquarters). There were a couple of instances where US servicemen got busted with hashish by the polizei, and the penalty in Germany for possession at that time was up to 10 years in prison. Under NATO SOFA, the Germans released the prisoner to US jurisdiction for 24 hours. During that 24 hours, the accused was packed up and shipped out of the country back to the States to stand trial. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/9 "2001-11-09T15:13:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spavined Gelding \* > \*\*I’m relying on a fading recollection of the NATO SOFA. The WARSAW PACT SOFA matched our drapes better. Got a great deal too, at the Glorious People’s Crate and Barrel and Hammer and Sickle. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/10 "2001-11-09T15:17:51Z")
That cup of coffee this morning really emboldened me. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/11 "2001-11-09T16:38:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > Last night, a young member of the US Army Reserves informed me that “the good thing about being in the US Army is that when you go overseas, wherever you are is legally a piece of the United States and you can’t be punished by the local country.” Whoa, that’d be _so awesome_! Join the Army and commit crimes! Rape! Murder! Public lewdness! Vandalism! Larceny! The possibilities are endless! :rolleyes: What a dork. ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/12 "2001-11-09T16:52:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robby \* > \*\*Possibly the misinformed Private is confusing the Status of Forces Agreements with the fact that _embassies_ are regarded as sovereign territory of the nations they represent. > > The same is true for warships. \*\* Is the same also true for US Military bases? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/13 "2001-11-09T17:02:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Demise \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by robby \* > > \*\*Possibly the misinformed Private is confusing the Status of Forces Agreements with the fact that _embassies_ are regarded as sovereign territory of the nations they represent. > > > > The same is true for warships. \*\* > > Is the same also true for US Military bases? \*\* No. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/14 "2001-11-10T00:33:50Z")
Apparently some of y’all missed where I quoted the USANG PV1 saying “wherever you go.” You see, I am familiar with the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) for NATO, having served there for three years, and with the SOFA for Japan, having served there for over five years. The treaties provide for host country determination for jurisdiction for “civil offenses,” in this case those being committed (allegedly) by US Service Members while not in the performance of their official duties. The fact of the matter is that the scenario provided by the PV1 in question wasn’t even approaching true. ---
**Author:** ![jabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/db5fbb/32.png) [@jabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabe)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/15 "2001-11-10T00:44:28Z")
I was born in a military hospital in Panama City, Panama, and I was always led to believe that the base was US territory. But this was taught to me by my dad, who thinks the whole damn world should be US territory GOD DAMN IT!!! So I might be misinformed. peace, JB ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-military-myth-aka-bullshit/92318/16 "2001-11-10T01:25:31Z")
Jabe, I believe you are referring to what was known as the Panama Canal Zone. Here follows the beginning of the Microsoft Encarta argicle about it: > [@](#): > > ## U.S.-administered territory, central Panama. The strip of land, extending across the Isthmus of Panama, was granted by a 1903 treaty (with later amendments) to the U.S. in perpetuity, for the purposes of construction, operation, maintenance, and protection of the Panama Canal. The zone extended approximately 8 km (5 mi) on either side of the canal and had a total area of 1676 sq km (647 sq mi). The zone was administered by a governor appointed by the U.S. president. > > “Panama Canal Zone,” Microsoft ® Encarta. Copyright © 1994 Microsoft Corporation. Copyright © 1994 Funk & Wagnall’s Corporation.